Tennessee State/SWAC


:dedhorse:
 



Braves4Life said:
Are there talks about Tennessee State moving to the SWAC?
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@Braves4Life welcome to the board. As already hinted by others, this subject has been discussed for many years in this forum. You probably want to type the subject in search where you will find many of those discussions that will tell how many people feel about it.

Meanwhile, much respect and good luck to Alcorn on this up and coming season. Welcome again & hope you enjoy the board.
 
JROCK said:
They can make close to that amount with an FBS game (they wouldn't have to fill their non-conference schedule with HBCU(s) like they're doing in the OVC. However, it's their move to make. You cannot want it for them more than they want it for themselves......
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yup. I don’t even know if Dr. Glover has had a second from running the university and AKA to even think about the school’s conference membership
 
Adding a different wrinkle to the conversation in regards to the SWAC going FBS - and with apologies to MVSU, but has anyone thought of the possibility of adding Tennessee State to the SWAC as a 13th member and Valley staying at the FCS level? That would give the SWAC TnSU as a 12th FBS team and 13th in all other sports. Not sure if that's allowed, but definitely worth consideration. Win-win for the conference:

Eastern
Alabama A&M
Alabama State
Bethune Cookman
Florida A&M
Jackson State
Tennessee State

Western
Alcorn State
Arkansas-Pine Bluff
Grambling State
Prairie View A&M
Southern University
Texas Southern

All Other Sports
+ Mississippi Valley State

This is not meant as a slant towards Valley, but I have serious doubts about them being able to sustain at the FBS level without serious financial boosts. This way they remain in the SWAC as D1 member, and can benefit from the membership sharing, but also compete in FCS without breaking the bank. Whenever they are ready to move up to FBS, the SWAC could look for a 14th member to become a super-conference. MVSU could still schedule traditional SWAC rivals like JSU and Alcorn as FBS OOC opponents, and join another FCS as an associate member. Thoughts?
 
Mr. SWAC said:
Adding a different wrinkle to the conversation in regards to the SWAC going FBS - and with apologies to MVSU, but has anyone thought of the possibility of adding Tennessee State to the SWAC as a 13th member and Valley staying at the FCS level? That would give the SWAC TnSU as a 12th FBS team and 13th in all other sports. Not sure if that's allowed, but definitely worth consideration. Win-win for the conference:

Eastern
Alabama A&M
Alabama State
Bethune Cookman
Florida A&M
Jackson State
Tennessee State

Western
Alcorn State
Arkansas-Pine Bluff
Grambling State
Prairie View A&M
Southern University
Texas Southern

All Other Sports
+ Mississippi Valley State

This is not meant as a slant towards Valley, but I have serious doubts about them being able to sustain at the FBS level without serious financial boosts. This way they remain in the SWAC as D1 member, and can benefit from the membership sharing, but also compete in FCS without breaking the bank. Whenever they are ready to move up to FBS, the SWAC could look for a 14th member to become a super-conference. MVSU could still schedule traditional SWAC rivals like JSU and Alcorn as FBS OOC opponents, and join another FCS as an associate member. Thoughts?
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The vast majority of the heavy hitters would be in the eastern side. If it does not work out with Sanders, JSU would replace Valley and always be at the bottom. Lol!!!

But this is unlikely to happen. As I have explained before, Tenn. State is under court-ordered restrictions that impacts its ability to make certain kinds of decisions. People need to stop knocking Tenn State...Most of the criticism is ludicrous and ignorant of informed (purposely uninformed, actually) opinion on the matter.
 
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Please dont start this ish no more.... Let them
Oracle said:
The vast majority of the heavy hitters would be in the eastern side. If it does not work out with Sanders, JSU would replace Valley and always be at the bottom. Lol!!!

But this is unlikely to happen. As I have explained before, Tenn. State is under court-ordered restrictions that impacts its ability to make certain kinds of decisions. People need to stop knocking Tenn State...Most of the criticism is ludicrous and ignorant of informed (purposely uninformed, actually) opinion on the matter.
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that is 100% false. There is no court ordered mandate saying TSU has to be in any conference. That is a long standing false rumor .
 
DAHILL said:
Please dont start this ish no more.... Let them

that is 100% false. There is no court ordered mandate saying TSU has to be in any conference. That is a long standing false rumor .
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Also, wouldn't a legal action mandating a college's affiliations be kinda illegal?
 
JROCK said:
They can make close to that amount with an FBS game (they wouldn't have to fill their non-conference schedule with HBCU(s) like they're doing in the OVC. However, it's their move to make. You cannot want it for them more than they want it for themselves......
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@westcoastaggie if they submit it in a timely fashion, lets say for 2023 ain't no way they are paying that fee.

Obviously, there is a faction behind the scenes that don't want it to happen and is powerful enough to keep it from happening and don't care about the program's overall success.
 
DAHILL said:
Please dont start this ish no more.... Let them

that is 100% false. There is no court ordered mandate saying TSU has to be in any conference. That is a long standing false rumor .
Click to expand...

Before you attempt to refute something, always understand the right issue. I don't make false statement regarding law. I never said any court order required them to be in that conference. I said that one of the conditions in the desegregation order required Tenn State to take action designed to accommodate and incorporate white students into its community--to make the school more friendly to white students. For example, the order required Tenn State to stop identifying itself as a hbcu and advertise itself only as a general university. The order also required Tenn State to attract more white faculty and administrators and achieve a 50-50 ratio of black-white students. The order also required Tenn State to set up a committee to eliminate any racial identification.

What I said was that moving to the OVC might have been a compromise within that committee ( and the university's governing board) to help recruit and make white students feel more comfortable, and to help reduce the racial identity as required by the court order. This is what I said in the previous post, while quoting the actual court order:




You are mostly right. The decree did not require TNSU to join the OVC but it required all Tennessee universities to do more to desegregate and this required TNSU to implement strategies to increase and maintain the number of non-black students, The decree required TNSU to to drop identity as an HBCU and refer to itself only as a non-racial university. So all of the vitriol directed at TNSU is misguided. Again, its membership in the OVC might have been done in an attempt to attract and maintain white students as required by the decree.


The court set out requirements for the merger:

In Geier v. Alexander, 593 F. Supp. 1263 (M.D. Tenn. 1984), the court ordered:

A. Interim objectives and methodologies for setting long range objectives shall insure the achievement of non-racially identifiable institutions of higher education in Tennessee

B. Within 180 days, SBR and UT shall develop a plan, including financial and other incentives, to attract white faculty and administrators to TSU and black faculty and administrators to predominantly white institutions. The plan shall be widely publicized at all institutions. The plan shall address credit for prior service and other benefits of any person eligible for participation in the plan, including transferring faculty members to the extent allowed by law.

D. SBR shall immediately establish a 1993 interim objective for Tennessee State University (TSU) of 50% white undergraduate full-time equivalent enrollment. The parties agree that the ultimate long range objectives for the racial composition of the students at TSU will be set on the same basis as the objectives are set at all other institutions in the State


G. The defendants shall conduct a study within 120 days to determine the feasibility of a plan whereby other-race[2] students shall be accorded tuition discounts, loans, scholarships and/or other incentives for purposes of desegregation. These incentives will also be studied for the purpose of encouraging the retention of other-race students. The plan shall be implemented by the fall semester of 1985 if and to the extent feasible

J. UT and SBR shall conduct a study of each of their respective institutions to determine whether any public institution of higher education in Tennessee projects an image as being racially identifiable. UT and SBR each shall appoint members of a bi-racial committee to conduct this study. Each committee shall consult with a broad spectrum of residents in the service area, as well as the faculty, students and administration of each institution and shall report its findings and recommendations to the appropriate governing board within 120 days. SBR and UT Boards shall implement changes necessary to create in each institution the image of an institution that serves the citizens of Tennessee on a non-racial basis.


VIII. Defendants agree that no institution will be identified as a one-race institution or a predominantly one-race institution in any official university publication or in any public statement made in an official capacity by any administrator of that institution. Each institution mission statement shall refer to its mission as an institution committed to education of a non-racially identifiable student body.

You are mostly right. The decree did not require TNSU to join the OVC but it required all Tennessee universities to do more to desegregate and this required TNSU to implement strategies to increase and maintain the number of non-black students, The decree required TNSU to to drop identity as an HBCU and refer to itself only as a non-racial university. So all of the vitriol directed at TNSU is misguided. Again, its membership in the OVC might have been done in an attempt to attract and maintain white students as required by the decree.


The court set out requirements for the merger:

In Geier v. Alexander, 593 F. Supp. 1263 (M.D. Tenn. 1984), the court ordered:

A. Interim objectives and methodologies for setting long range objectives shall insure the achievement of non-racially identifiable institutions of higher education in Tennessee

B. Within 180 days, SBR and UT shall develop a plan, including financial and other incentives, to attract white faculty and administrators to TSU and black faculty and administrators to predominantly white institutions. The plan shall be widely publicized at all institutions. The plan shall address credit for prior service and other benefits of any person eligible for participation in the plan, including transferring faculty members to the extent allowed by law.

D. SBR shall immediately establish a 1993 interim objective for Tennessee State University (TSU) of 50% white undergraduate full-time equivalent enrollment. The parties agree that the ultimate long range objectives for the racial composition of the students at TSU will be set on the same basis as the objectives are set at all other institutions in the State


G. The defendants shall conduct a study within 120 days to determine the feasibility of a plan whereby other-race[2] students shall be accorded tuition discounts, loans, scholarships and/or other incentives for purposes of desegregation. These incentives will also be studied for the purpose of encouraging the retention of other-race students. The plan shall be implemented by the fall semester of 1985 if and to the extent feasible

J. UT and SBR shall conduct a study of each of their respective institutions to determine whether any public institution of higher education in Tennessee projects an image as being racially identifiable. UT and SBR each shall appoint members of a bi-racial committee to conduct this study. Each committee shall consult with a broad spectrum of residents in the service area, as well as the faculty, students and administration of each institution and shall report its findings and recommendations to the appropriate governing board within 120 days. SBR and UT Boards shall implement changes necessary to create in each institution the image of an institution that serves the citizens of Tennessee on a non-racial basis.


VIII. Defendants agree that no institution will be identified as a one-race institution or a predominantly one-race institution in any official university publication or in any public statement made in an official capacity by any administrator of that institution. Each institution mission statement shall refer to its mission as an institution committed to education of a non-racially identifiable student body.



































































1609366541091.png
 



Oracle said:
Before you attempt to refute something, always understand the right issue. I don't make false statement regarding law. I never said any court order required them to be in that conference. I said that one of the conditions in the desegregation order required Tenn State to take action designed to accommodate and incorporate white students into its community--to make the school more friendly to white students. For example, the order required Tenn State to stop identifying itself as a hbcu and advertise itself only as a general university. The order also required Tenn State to attract more white faculty and administrators and achieve a 50-50 ratio of black-white students. The order also required Tenn State to set up a committee to eliminate any racial identification.

What I said was that moving to the OVC might have been a compromise within that committee ( and the university's governing board) to help recruit and make white students feel more comfortable, and to help reduce the racial identity as required by the court order. This is what I said in the previous post, while quoting the actual court order:




You are mostly right. The decree did not require TNSU to join the OVC but it required all Tennessee universities to do more to desegregate and this required TNSU to implement strategies to increase and maintain the number of non-black students, The decree required TNSU to to drop identity as an HBCU and refer to itself only as a non-racial university. So all of the vitriol directed at TNSU is misguided. Again, its membership in the OVC might have been done in an attempt to attract and maintain white students as required by the decree.


The court set out requirements for the merger:

In Geier v. Alexander, 593 F. Supp. 1263 (M.D. Tenn. 1984), the court ordered:

A. Interim objectives and methodologies for setting long range objectives shall insure the achievement of non-racially identifiable institutions of higher education in Tennessee

B. Within 180 days, SBR and UT shall develop a plan, including financial and other incentives, to attract white faculty and administrators to TSU and black faculty and administrators to predominantly white institutions. The plan shall be widely publicized at all institutions. The plan shall address credit for prior service and other benefits of any person eligible for participation in the plan, including transferring faculty members to the extent allowed by law.

D. SBR shall immediately establish a 1993 interim objective for Tennessee State University (TSU) of 50% white undergraduate full-time equivalent enrollment. The parties agree that the ultimate long range objectives for the racial composition of the students at TSU will be set on the same basis as the objectives are set at all other institutions in the State


G. The defendants shall conduct a study within 120 days to determine the feasibility of a plan whereby other-race[2] students shall be accorded tuition discounts, loans, scholarships and/or other incentives for purposes of desegregation. These incentives will also be studied for the purpose of encouraging the retention of other-race students. The plan shall be implemented by the fall semester of 1985 if and to the extent feasible

J. UT and SBR shall conduct a study of each of their respective institutions to determine whether any public institution of higher education in Tennessee projects an image as being racially identifiable. UT and SBR each shall appoint members of a bi-racial committee to conduct this study. Each committee shall consult with a broad spectrum of residents in the service area, as well as the faculty, students and administration of each institution and shall report its findings and recommendations to the appropriate governing board within 120 days. SBR and UT Boards shall implement changes necessary to create in each institution the image of an institution that serves the citizens of Tennessee on a non-racial basis.


VIII. Defendants agree that no institution will be identified as a one-race institution or a predominantly one-race institution in any official university publication or in any public statement made in an official capacity by any administrator of that institution. Each institution mission statement shall refer to its mission as an institution committed to education of a non-racially identifiable student body.

You are mostly right. The decree did not require TNSU to join the OVC but it required all Tennessee universities to do more to desegregate and this required TNSU to implement strategies to increase and maintain the number of non-black students, The decree required TNSU to to drop identity as an HBCU and refer to itself only as a non-racial university. So all of the vitriol directed at TNSU is misguided. Again, its membership in the OVC might have been done in an attempt to attract and maintain white students as required by the decree.


The court set out requirements for the merger:

In Geier v. Alexander, 593 F. Supp. 1263 (M.D. Tenn. 1984), the court ordered:

A. Interim objectives and methodologies for setting long range objectives shall insure the achievement of non-racially identifiable institutions of higher education in Tennessee

B. Within 180 days, SBR and UT shall develop a plan, including financial and other incentives, to attract white faculty and administrators to TSU and black faculty and administrators to predominantly white institutions. The plan shall be widely publicized at all institutions. The plan shall address credit for prior service and other benefits of any person eligible for participation in the plan, including transferring faculty members to the extent allowed by law.

D. SBR shall immediately establish a 1993 interim objective for Tennessee State University (TSU) of 50% white undergraduate full-time equivalent enrollment. The parties agree that the ultimate long range objectives for the racial composition of the students at TSU will be set on the same basis as the objectives are set at all other institutions in the State


G. The defendants shall conduct a study within 120 days to determine the feasibility of a plan whereby other-race[2] students shall be accorded tuition discounts, loans, scholarships and/or other incentives for purposes of desegregation. These incentives will also be studied for the purpose of encouraging the retention of other-race students. The plan shall be implemented by the fall semester of 1985 if and to the extent feasible

J. UT and SBR shall conduct a study of each of their respective institutions to determine whether any public institution of higher education in Tennessee projects an image as being racially identifiable. UT and SBR each shall appoint members of a bi-racial committee to conduct this study. Each committee shall consult with a broad spectrum of residents in the service area, as well as the faculty, students and administration of each institution and shall report its findings and recommendations to the appropriate governing board within 120 days. SBR and UT Boards shall implement changes necessary to create in each institution the image of an institution that serves the citizens of Tennessee on a non-racial basis.


VIII. Defendants agree that no institution will be identified as a one-race institution or a predominantly one-race institution in any official university publication or in any public statement made in an official capacity by any administrator of that institution. Each institution mission statement shall refer to its mission as an institution committed to education of a non-racially identifiable student body.



































































View attachment 11338
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TSU/BAMA said:
^^^^^^^^ Oh, shit!!!! 🤣
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I don't know how that picture got there..; I must have gotten copied when I copied something else. My computer would not delete it.
 
Oracle said:
Before you attempt to refute something, always understand the right issue. I don't make false statement regarding law. I never said any court order required them to be in that conference. I said that one of the conditions in the desegregation order required Tenn State to take action designed to accommodate and incorporate white students into its community--to make the school more friendly to white students. For example, the order required Tenn State to stop identifying itself as a hbcu and advertise itself only as a general university. The order also required Tenn State to attract more white faculty and administrators and achieve a 50-50 ratio of black-white students. The order also required Tenn State to set up a committee to eliminate any racial identification.

What I said was that moving to the OVC might have been a compromise within that committee ( and the university's governing board) to help recruit and make white students feel more comfortable, and to help reduce the racial identity as required by the court order. This is what I said in the previous post, while quoting the actual court order:




You are mostly right. The decree did not require TNSU to join the OVC but it required all Tennessee universities to do more to desegregate and this required TNSU to implement strategies to increase and maintain the number of non-black students, The decree required TNSU to to drop identity as an HBCU and refer to itself only as a non-racial university. So all of the vitriol directed at TNSU is misguided. Again, its membership in the OVC might have been done in an attempt to attract and maintain white students as required by the decree.


The court set out requirements for the merger:

In Geier v. Alexander, 593 F. Supp. 1263 (M.D. Tenn. 1984), the court ordered:

A. Interim objectives and methodologies for setting long range objectives shall insure the achievement of non-racially identifiable institutions of higher education in Tennessee

B. Within 180 days, SBR and UT shall develop a plan, including financial and other incentives, to attract white faculty and administrators to TSU and black faculty and administrators to predominantly white institutions. The plan shall be widely publicized at all institutions. The plan shall address credit for prior service and other benefits of any person eligible for participation in the plan, including transferring faculty members to the extent allowed by law.

D. SBR shall immediately establish a 1993 interim objective for Tennessee State University (TSU) of 50% white undergraduate full-time equivalent enrollment. The parties agree that the ultimate long range objectives for the racial composition of the students at TSU will be set on the same basis as the objectives are set at all other institutions in the State


G. The defendants shall conduct a study within 120 days to determine the feasibility of a plan whereby other-race[2] students shall be accorded tuition discounts, loans, scholarships and/or other incentives for purposes of desegregation. These incentives will also be studied for the purpose of encouraging the retention of other-race students. The plan shall be implemented by the fall semester of 1985 if and to the extent feasible

J. UT and SBR shall conduct a study of each of their respective institutions to determine whether any public institution of higher education in Tennessee projects an image as being racially identifiable. UT and SBR each shall appoint members of a bi-racial committee to conduct this study. Each committee shall consult with a broad spectrum of residents in the service area, as well as the faculty, students and administration of each institution and shall report its findings and recommendations to the appropriate governing board within 120 days. SBR and UT Boards shall implement changes necessary to create in each institution the image of an institution that serves the citizens of Tennessee on a non-racial basis.


VIII. Defendants agree that no institution will be identified as a one-race institution or a predominantly one-race institution in any official university publication or in any public statement made in an official capacity by any administrator of that institution. Each institution mission statement shall refer to its mission as an institution committed to education of a non-racially identifiable student body.

You are mostly right. The decree did not require TNSU to join the OVC but it required all Tennessee universities to do more to desegregate and this required TNSU to implement strategies to increase and maintain the number of non-black students, The decree required TNSU to to drop identity as an HBCU and refer to itself only as a non-racial university. So all of the vitriol directed at TNSU is misguided. Again, its membership in the OVC might have been done in an attempt to attract and maintain white students as required by the decree.


The court set out requirements for the merger:

In Geier v. Alexander, 593 F. Supp. 1263 (M.D. Tenn. 1984), the court ordered:

A. Interim objectives and methodologies for setting long range objectives shall insure the achievement of non-racially identifiable institutions of higher education in Tennessee

B. Within 180 days, SBR and UT shall develop a plan, including financial and other incentives, to attract white faculty and administrators to TSU and black faculty and administrators to predominantly white institutions. The plan shall be widely publicized at all institutions. The plan shall address credit for prior service and other benefits of any person eligible for participation in the plan, including transferring faculty members to the extent allowed by law.

D. SBR shall immediately establish a 1993 interim objective for Tennessee State University (TSU) of 50% white undergraduate full-time equivalent enrollment. The parties agree that the ultimate long range objectives for the racial composition of the students at TSU will be set on the same basis as the objectives are set at all other institutions in the State


G. The defendants shall conduct a study within 120 days to determine the feasibility of a plan whereby other-race[2] students shall be accorded tuition discounts, loans, scholarships and/or other incentives for purposes of desegregation. These incentives will also be studied for the purpose of encouraging the retention of other-race students. The plan shall be implemented by the fall semester of 1985 if and to the extent feasible

J. UT and SBR shall conduct a study of each of their respective institutions to determine whether any public institution of higher education in Tennessee projects an image as being racially identifiable. UT and SBR each shall appoint members of a bi-racial committee to conduct this study. Each committee shall consult with a broad spectrum of residents in the service area, as well as the faculty, students and administration of each institution and shall report its findings and recommendations to the appropriate governing board within 120 days. SBR and UT Boards shall implement changes necessary to create in each institution the image of an institution that serves the citizens of Tennessee on a non-racial basis.


VIII. Defendants agree that no institution will be identified as a one-race institution or a predominantly one-race institution in any official university publication or in any public statement made in an official capacity by any administrator of that institution. Each institution mission statement shall refer to its mission as an institution committed to education of a non-racially identifiable student body.



































































View attachment 11338
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You "researched" all of that to prove what I originally stated. There is no "law" stating that Tenn State has to be in a white conference. Tenn State can come to the SWAC or MEAC if they want to.
 
Blacknbengal said:
I think his computer just posted what he was previously googling and watching on those naked sites.
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I think some models were on the Microsoft News page when I copied an article. Apparently, I copied one of them and it pasted on this page when I pasted my post.
 
DAHILL said:
You "researched" all of that to prove what I originally stated. There is no "law" stating that Tenn State has to be in a white conference. Tenn State can come to the SWAC or MEAC if they want to.
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You are right that there is no order to that effect. I read your post as saying that I was implying there was such an order and that my comments were false. If I misread your post, my mistake. My comments were that Tenn State was under court orders to become a non-racially identifiable school, was required to change to reflect the that new identity, and the new identity was to be decided by a bi-racial committee. I was making a point that the decision to go to the OVC might have been a compromise brokered by the committee in an attempt to comply with the court order that Tenn State do things to attract prospective white students. My comments were made to refute comments that Tenn State won't come to the SWAC simply because it thinks it is better than SWAC schools.

I did not have to research that info for the post. I had posted this on a previous thread about why Tenn State was not in the SWAC,
 
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