SWAC vs. rest of I-AA

[PNeck019]

In my opinion, I think the reason SWAC schools haven't been as competitive vs. PWCs is simply a smaller recruiting pool.

I'm not talking about recruiting more white kids. That's a different issue all together. I do believe, however, that there are more now that would come if recruited seriously.

What I'm talking about is recruiting more black kids from "white" schools. When I look at Southern's roster, I don't see very many kids who are not from predominately black high schools.

There are loads of players we're missing out on if we're just recruiting the kids from these schools.

Imagine how a pro league that only got players from HBCUs would fare vs. the NFL, who gets not only HBCU players, but black (and white) players from every school.

I understand that some of the coaches at these schools may not throw out the welcome mat as much as we'd like, but there are probably more who would than you think.

This is where we as fans (and alumni) come in. When we see or hear of these kids, we have to let somebody within our programs know about them.

 

[BgJag]

In my opinion, I think the reason SWAC schools haven't been as competitive vs. PWCs is simply a smaller recruiting pool.

I'm not talking about recruiting more white kids. That's a different issue all together. I do believe, however, that there are more now that would come if recruited seriously.

What I'm talking about is recruiting more black kids from "white" schools. When I look at Southern's roster, I don't see very many kids who are not from predominately black high schools.

There are loads of players we're missing out on if we're just recruiting the kids from these schools.

Imagine how a pro league that only got players from HBCUs would fare vs. the NFL, who gets not only HBCU players, but black (and white) players from every school.

I understand that some of the coaches at these schools may not throw out the welcome mat as much as we'd like, but there are probably more who would than you think.

This is where we as fans (and alumni) come in. When we see or hear of these kids, we have to let somebody within our programs know about them.

It's more complexed than that but I'll agree generally. There's things that the universities need to do as far as comitting resources to their program.

 

[GSUperTiger]

I thought your theory would be based on recruiting. I agree. Southland schools and others recruit from the best of both worlds. However, it is easier for a black kid to go to a McNeese because teams are 60-70% black. For a white kid to matriculate to a HBCU, there will not be similar faces on the gridiron and in the classroom. Being the only one is not new to me, I either experienced this myself or vicariously through my parents (therefore recruiting the black athlete is an easier process as opposed to the other way around).

There's things that the universities need to do as far as comitting resources to their program.

Yes sir.

 

[PNeck019]

I haven't had a chance to look closely at other SWAC rosters. The only schools I'm really familiar with are in Louisiana, so it's hard to tell if this is the case across the SWAC. Hell, half of SU's white players are (is....lol 1 of 2) from a predominantly black school.

I don't think there are as many barriers as there used to be for recruiters to get into "white" schools. Some of it isn't racially motivated, either, just coaches steering their boys to their alma maters.

This happened the other way around in the case of Lenny Williams. The McCoach who recruited him is a good friend of mine and tells me that one of Lenny's HS coaches basically stonewalled him and steered Lenny straight to SU. Part of me says good job and part of me says he should've let the kid make the call....perhaps he'd have made the same decision....it seems to have worked out well for him.

To expand on my previous post, don't y'all think West Monroe has some players that could help Grambling?

 

[KILLER-LION]

I agree I think it has a lot to do with the recruiting pool that we are allowed, the swac is a very competitive conference we just need to stop settling for what we feel is good and get what is GREAT!!!!

 

[Texas Southern Fan]

I think Texas Southern will recruit black players from most of the schools in the Greater Houston area. I feel TSU sometimes get intimidated by some of the athletes and won't recruit them.

I'm shocked to read that Southern and Grambling recruits mostly come from black high schools.

 

[SAME OLD G]

Man please!!!

P-Neck, I am going to respectfully disagree with everything you mentioned.

You said you looked at Southern's roster to find that most of the players come from predominatly black high schools, but did you bother to look at the other SWAC rosters to see where those players are coming from? How is this just the case for SWAC schools and not for other HBCU conferences? Did you bother to look at those rosters?

I know the SWAC has its short-comings, but lets not get too "nit-picky" in our comparisons. The bottomline is coaches go after players they think will be a fit for their programs. When recruiting, coaches don't give a dayum about whether or not a high school is black or white. They just want the player.

But for the sake of argument, I would say the reason that most of the SWAC rosters contain students from predominatly black high schools (and I don't believe this) is because they are more likely to be an untapped resource that larger (white) programs don't touch. They may go after that one, highly touted, super-star athlete, but the rest they don't even bother to contact.

 

[Dr. Mac]

I Agree more with SOG than P-Neck on this. Also concurring with BgJag on that it is much more complex than just saying SU and other SWAC schools mostly recruit at Black high schools. Colleges have networks for recruiting, High school coaches steer, perception of bigger/better school prestige factor, word of mouth stuff about (fill in the blank "facilities, coaches, academics, ................"), recruiting budgets, Parents, effect of black kids being in the "white" high school environment, etc. etc., etc.

And a little bit more on the last two. I see the effect of the "white high school environment on black kids" factor first hand in my own 10th grader who's 1 of about 75 African Americans males in an all male school of about 1500 students). Now, he has decided that he's going HBCU (And he's good enough to play college football at the lower I-A or I-AA level but has decided not to), and so did my daughter who went to high school in the same type of enviroment. This was in no small part to my wife and I as their parents making sure that they understood the types of opportunities that are available at the different schools. We made sure HBCU's did not get the short end of the stick in terms of consideration because of some well-meaning guidance counselor not presenting that option to my kids. On the other hand, I have also talked to other kids and/or their parents in this environment who won't even consider HBCUs as an options. In cases of the athletes, often it is not the kid who is a BCS school candidate, but a child who is I-AA or possibly lower/mid major (i.e., the type of kids we get). Even if the HBCU recruited this kid, they wouldn't get him. And unfortunately, I have seen too many (more the rule than the exception) with this attitude in black kids that go to "white" schools. All of the things mentioned could factor into this, but I put most of this on the shoulders of the parents. They should make sure the kids have a balanced view on all the options available to them.

All of the above are just some of the reasons why some colleges are more successful at some high schools than others. It not just as simple as HBCU's mostly recruit at black high schools.

Regards.

 

[PNeck019]

Man please!!!

P-Neck, I am going to respectfully disagree with everything you mentioned.

You said you looked at Southern's roster to find that most of the players come from predominatly black high schools, but did you bother to look at the other SWAC rosters to see where those players are coming from? How is this just the case for SWAC schools and not for other HBCU conferences? Did you bother to look at those rosters?

I know the SWAC has its short-comings, but lets not get too "nit-picky" in our comparisons. The bottomline is coaches go after players they think will be a fit for their programs. When recruiting, coaches don't give a dayum about whether or not a high school is black or white. They just want the player.

But for the sake of argument, I would say the reason that most of the SWAC rosters contain students from predominatly black high schools (and I don't believe this) is because they are more likely to be an untapped resource that larger (white) programs don't touch. They may go after that one, highly touted, super-star athlete, but the rest they don't even bother to contact.

There are kids from these same high schools that play at the Northwesterns, McNeeses, etc. So the untapped thing I don't buy.

I did also say I hadn't had a chance to look at the other SWAC schools, and, except for Grambling, it wouldn't do me any good since I'm not familiar with the racial makeup of schools in Texas, Mississippi, Alabama, and Arkansas.

I also didn't say the schools don't recruit from other schools at all, just that a disproportionate amount of players come from this small portion of all schools.

Here are the Louisiana schools that Southern's two-deep roster come from:
* for predominantly black schools....others may be too, but I'm not 100% certain so I leave them blank....

Lutcher 2
*Carver
*Glen Oaks 2
Kentwood
*Lake Charles-Boston
*Capitol
*Southern Lab 4
*McKinley
East St. John
*LaGrange 2
Baker 2
West Jefferson 2
*St. Augustine
*Booker T. Washington-Shreveport
*Kennedy 2
Tara
Terrebonne
Port Sulphur
St. Amant
*Wossman
Donaldsonville
Rayne
*L.B. Landry
*Warren Easton
Covington

 

[JROCK]

A Few Thoughts on S.U. Recruiting

S.U. recruiting has really become more regional than in the past. This has become a reality for more than one reason. I remember S.U. roster was lined up with kids from Los Angeles, Chicago, Atlanta, Houston and many major metropolitan areas. It was very common to see lettermen jackets for example from Westinghouse Chi, Jack Yates, or Cassimere Houston, Crenshaw LA or BTW Atlanta to name ONLY a few. When Otis Washington came from St. Augustine New Orleans this began to change.

When Southern broke Gram's long winning streak the main cogs in that game was Billy Mayo (Atlanta) George Farmer (Los Angles) Kenneth Times (Florida) and James Davis (Oakland) to give you an example.

I think based on a combination of financial consideration and below par consistency in winning titles, S.U. changed their recruiting habits. The southern boys from Louisiana & Mississippi were really excelling at Grambling, Alcorn & Jackson State and The Nation took notice. One of the biggest grumblings at S.U. was about going all over the map to bring these people in and the championships were not coming.

Another common conversation and happening well after desegragation was a lot of white high school coaches were using under hand tactics to stop the black high school students from attending HBCU(s). I will assume that things are much better in that department now.

Finally the formulation of this subclassification called I-AA has also had an adverse impact on recruiting at HBCU(s). Vince Dooley and other traditional white powerhouse universities were really getting bent out of shape because HBCU(s) started getting serious television time on major networks to name one of their paramount gripes. The most critical mistake IMHO, that the SWAC made was not fighting harder to either play in the top classification or gather the political muscle to stop the separtation. Hence, our powerhouse HBCU(s) are stuck in this subclassification. Now our schools have been tainted with the PERCEPTION that it is not a place for an elite athlete to attend. As we all know this is one of our biggest recruiting challenges/obstacles in 2004.

I am with BgJag on this one. There is not a single reason for our current recruiting state.

 

[MikeBigg]

...To expand on my previous post, don't y'all think West Monroe has some players that could help Grambling?

Actually, Grambling's starting center (Lance Wright) is a graduate of West Monroe. But we have to qualify that by admitting that he is the son of GSU basketball coach, Larry Wright.

In the past, I have noticed GSU players from Evangel and we recently signed Larry Anderson from Redemptorist. However, I agree that I have been told by Kids from mostly white populated high schools that Grambling and SU didn't recruit them. I have asked coaches about this and was told that they have difficulty getting access to the kids. One way around this is to try and contact the guidance office at the school, the principal, and parents. Difficult but a viable approach.

 

[Diesel]

Has anyone here ever thought that there are reasons other than athletic ones as to why Southern doesn't get the quality athletes in abundance like before?

I have a theory and its a sound, yet controversial one that always puts me and my fellow alumns at odds.

 

[JROCK]

Has anyone here ever thought that there are reasons other than athletic ones as to why Southern doesn't get the quality athletes in abundance like before?

I have a theory and its a sound, yet controversial one that always puts me and my fellow alumns at odds.

I think that several people in this thread agree that there is more than one reason. I concur that all reason's are not athletically oriented.

 

[PNeck019]

Actually, Grambling's starting center (Lance Wright) is a graduate of West Monroe. But we have to qualify that by admitting that he is the son of GSU basketball coach, Larry Wright.

In the past, I have noticed GSU players from Evangel and we recently signed Larry Anderson from Redemptorist. However, I agree that I have been told by Kids from mostly white populated high schools that Grambling and SU didn't recruit them. I have asked coaches about this and was told that they have difficulty getting access to the kids. One way around this is to try and contact the guidance office at the school, the principal, and parents. Difficult but a viable approach.

I can buy that angle, as I alluded to. I do think, however, that those barriers are coming down some.

That said, in my heart of hearts I don't believe LaGrange's current head coach (white) would have recommended BA to SU like his head coach (black)did.

Like I posted though, this is where those of us who have relationships with our colleges' coaches can come in handy. Some are hard-headed, however, and think you're just trying to pimp your boy. Others will gladly take the help and at least evaluate the player for themselves.

You kinda have to be careful not to cry wolf and recommend every Tom, Dick, and Harry and stick to the ones that you know can contribute at the college level or have a big upside. If all or most of the kids you recommend end up panning out, your contacts know you have an eye for players.