Smash-mouth, blue-collar teams in the SWAC.


Bartram

Bartram

Brand HBCUbian
Historically I just can't say that I have seen many old school, SEC-style (70s 80s, three yards & a cloud of dust) HBCU football teams. It's pretty much all pass-happy-jackie type teams. :flippy:

I was so shocked a few years ago when I moved back to Alabama and went to some of Tuskegee's games and saw that we actually had a ground game. This was unheard of at least during the 80s. I remembered when Tuskegee was built light and fast basically and it was throw, throw, throw, but then when I went to Turkey Day,,,, I saw a team with size (even compaired to ASU Div I-AA who I automatically assumed would out-size TU on the line and at most every position because TU was never in my day a team with any size) and a bruiser fullback (this was 99 or 00) and a line that could move the ball on the ground and grind out the clock. I was stunned. R. Comegy really changed the look and flavor of Tuskegee's team, bring a more balanced attack to TU. :smash:

Who are the SWAC schools that fit the old SEC(80s) image (Florida changed the paradigm from smash-mouth to fun & gun-high octane score quickly and at will) of ball control, smash-mouth, hardnose team with a solid ground game? :smash:

I remember going to an ASU vs Alcorn (?) game last year or year before last (i forget) and being suprised at Alcorn (or whoever it was) tendency to pound it out on the ground with success. :smash:
 
Originally posted by Bartram


Florida changed the paradigm from smash-mouth to fun & gun-high octane score quickly and at will) of ball control, smash-mouth, hardnose team with a solid ground game?

Bartram,

After I went to the dictionary, to figure out what the hell a paradigm is, I am even more confident to say that Florida and Steve Spurier didn't change squat. Any HBCU expert will tell you that it was Mississippi Valley and Archie the "Gunslinger" Cooley that changed the paradigm of college football. ( Hey I found a new word) Remember Jerry Rice and Willie Totten.

I do remember that Southern had a couple of 1000 yard rushers doing "Pete's" early years, but Southern got away from that and went to the passing offense.
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Re: Re: Smash-mouth, blue-collar teams in the SWAC.

Originally posted by THAMES
Originally posted by Bartram


Florida changed the paradigm from smash-mouth to fun & gun-high octane score quickly and at will) of ball control, smash-mouth, hardnose team with a solid ground game?

Bartram,

After I went to the dictionary, to figure out what the hell a paradigm is, I am even more confident to say that Florida and Steve Spurier didn't change squat. Any HBCU expert will tell you that it was Mississippi Valley and Archie the "Gunslinger" Cooley that changed the paradigm of college football. ( Hey I found a new word) Remember Jerry Rice and Willie Totten.

I do remember that Southern had a couple of 1000 yard rushers doing "Pete's" early years, but Southern got away from that and went to the passing offense.
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Actually, S.U. is still a running team. Pete likes to use the run. S.U. just has not had that break out RB over the last 3 years. The last 1000 yard rushers were Steve Wofford in 1998 and Ryan Lewis 1999.
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Ok Thames,,, ok, ok

I am even more confident to say that Florida and Steve Spurier didn't change squat. Any HBCU expert will tell you that it was Mississippi Valley and Archie the "Gunslinger" Cooley that changed the paradigm of college football. ( Hey I found a new word) Remember Jerry Rice and Willie Totten.
Click to expand...

aaaiight my man, I should have qualified my statement about Steve Spurrier and the Florida Gators. I meant, they changed the paradigm in the SEC and among the college football mainstream media. Up until Spurrier came in the league, the SEC was know for bruising ground games and wishbone attacks,,, being able to stand in and slug it out with the other team in a 7 to 6 or 10 to 7 nail biter.

Yes, we all know that HBCUs had been "playing Steve Spurrier type ball" for years before he even came into college coaching, but that's the case for just about everything; blacks was always doing stuff and not getting credit for it,,, only to have whites start doing it and then all of a sudden it's a "great innovation of the game",,, yeah, yeah, yeah, good catch. :D

I would think that, traditionally, Jackson State would be a ground oriented team, more so than Southern. Just a guess though. Guess the question could narrow to who has the best running games in the SWAC historically or the last 10-15 years?
 
For years S.U. ran the Wing T under A.W. Mumford until the early 60s. That is where Eddie Robinson developed his offense from. After Mumford's death I am not sure what S.U. offense style was. From the early 90s until now it is more of a balance attack.
 
DOES THIS HELP??

TOTAL OFFENSE G Rush Pass Plays Yards Avg/P TD Yds/G
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alabama State....... 12 2193 3502 818 5695 7.0 57 474.6
Jackson State........ 11 1191 3813 897 5004 5.6 52 454.9
Grambling State......11 1971 2650 781 4621 5.9 48 420.1
Alcorn State............11 1013 2767 734 3780 5.1 37 343.6
Southern.................11 1265 2489 844 3754 4.4 34 341.3
Alabama A&M..........11 1983 1665 744 3648 4.9 24 331.6
Texas Southern.......10 1354 1635 720 2989 4.2 20 298.9
Prairie View A&M......10 807 1715 626 2522 4.0 22 252.2
Miss. Valley State.....11 726 1918 703 2644 3.8 23 240.4
Arkansas-Pine Bluff. 11 1276 1165 649 2441 3.8 17 221.9
 
"Smash mouth" football is NOT fan friendly

I appreciate good football, but I go to games to be entertained. So while I admit that smash mouth, balanced attacking football will win championships; it doesn't win fans. Today, I would rather go see a pass-happy JSU team than Grambling. IMHO

LaMont
 
Originally posted by LaMont
I appreciate good football, but I go to games to be entertained. So while I admit that smash mouth, balanced attacking football will win championships; it doesn't win fans. Today, I would rather go see a pass-happy JSU team than Grambling. IMHO

LaMont
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LEAVE THE ENTERTAINMENT TO THE BANDS. WIN GAMES AND THE FANS WILL COME. MANY FOLK GET SO EXCITED ABOUT HAVING X AMOUNT OF FANS AT THE GAME, BUT THE TEAM IS MEDIOCRE AT BEST. I GUESS WHEN YOU AREN'T WINNING YOU HAVE TO BRAG ABOUT SOMETHING. :smh: . AS FAR THE BALANCE ATTACK GOES. MANY TEAM WERE HURT BY-THE-LACK-THERE-OF A BALANCED ATTACK. THEY HAD TO VENTURE INTO AREAS THEY WEREN'T USED TO. IF THEY LIVED BY THE PASS AND THE PASS WAS INEFFECTIVE (?) DUE TO A STIFF DEFFENSE OR RAIN THEY DIED BY TRYING TI RUN AS A LAST RESORT. I THINK THE ICON THAT IS GRAMBLING HAS A 679 YARD DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE RUN AND THE PASS. MANY OF THE OTHER TEAMS, BAMA, JSU, SU HAD 1200+ DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE RUN AND THE PASS.
 
Good Stuff on Stats.

Looks like A&M and APB were the ground pounders even though several other schools easily had more yards on the ground,,, but it could be their passing game opened up the run as the perverbial saying goes,, not so much that they had killer ground games. I remember APB,,,, even though I think I saw them lose to Bama State one year, they could pound it out on the ground.

Would not disagree with your assessment on Grambling's balance; I think that correlates to the two championships. Tuskegee runs more (with the pass) than I ever seen us in years passed and it shows. Fort Valley had a higher per game rushing average than us last year also.
 
Personally I like smash-mouth football and lots of strategy. I hate all this, " see who can score the most by the time the game ends" kinda play we see plaguing every game. I want smash-mouth football, strategy, and defense.
 
as somebody said,,,

I think if you really researched it, you would find that the teams with the most balanced attacks prevail over the long hall. A team that can come up and punch the other team in the mouth, push them around on the field and control the ball will win most of the time,,, and over the long haul.

When Tuskegee could do nothing but air it out,,, it was exciting to see a long bomb touchdown, granted,,, but it was a sick feeling to see the other team gain first downs at will,, on the ground,, and Tuskegee having to throw, throw, throw to get a first down with a lead in the 4th quarter only to get intercepted and lose in a heart breaker. It is, on the other hand, so comforting to see Tuskegee get a lead in the 4th quarter and grind it out,,, BUT, in those close games when the other team scores late, then Tuskegee be able to strike back with either the air attack or by ground and save the day.

Give me smash-mouth football where a team can blow the opponent off the ball and control the line of scrimmage. If you can strike by air, that's icing on the cake.
 
Re: DOES THIS HELP??

Originally posted by MACHIAVELLI
TOTAL OFFENSE G Rush Pass Plays Yards Avg/P TD Yds/G
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alabama State....... 12 2193 3502 818 5695 7.0 57 474.6
Jackson State........ 11 1191 3813 897 5004 5.6 52 454.9
Grambling State......11 1971 2650 781 4621 5.9 48 420.1
Alcorn State............11 1013 2767 734 3780 5.1 37 343.6
Southern.................11 1265 2489 844 3754 4.4 34 341.3
Alabama A&M..........11 1983 1665 744 3648 4.9 24 331.6
Texas Southern.......10 1354 1635 720 2989 4.2 20 298.9
Prairie View A&M......10 807 1715 626 2522 4.0 22 252.2
Miss. Valley State.....11 726 1918 703 2644 3.8 23 240.4
Arkansas-Pine Bluff. 11 1276 1165 649 2441 3.8 17 221.9
Click to expand...
Thanx for the STATS:cool:
 
Re: as somebody said,,,

Originally posted by Bartram
I think if you really researched it, you would find that the teams with the most balanced attacks prevail over the long hall. A team that can come up and punch the other team in the mouth, push them around on the field and control the ball will win most of the time,,, and over the long haul.

Give me smash-mouth football where a team can blow the opponent off the ball and control the line of scrimmage. If you can strike by air, that's icing on the cake.
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I agree...this offensive philosophy is not a new concept, but too many coaches got away from this due to the national shift in emphasis to the passing game (speed of the game offensive and defensively had a major impact). Although these games can be
exciting, it seems that the balanced offenses typically come away with the championships (at all levels of competition).

GSU's Williams and TU's Comegys has installed this system, recruited good players, sell them on the system, coach the players well, and turn them loose.

Man, we need to get a game scheduled real soon...
 
Originally posted by MACHIAVELLI


LEAVE THE ENTERTAINMENT TO THE BANDS. WIN GAMES AND THE FANS WILL COME. MANY FOLK GET SO EXCITED ABOUT HAVING X AMOUNT OF FANS AT THE GAME, BUT THE TEAM IS MEDIOCRE AT BEST. I GUESS WHEN YOU AREN'T WINNING YOU HAVE TO BRAG ABOUT SOMETHING. :smh: . AS FAR THE BALANCE ATTACK GOES. MANY TEAM WERE HURT BY-THE-LACK-THERE-OF A BALANCED ATTACK. THEY HAD TO VENTURE INTO AREAS THEY WEREN'T USED TO. IF THEY LIVED BY THE PASS AND THE PASS WAS INEFFECTIVE (?) DUE TO A STIFF DEFFENSE OR RAIN THEY DIED BY TRYING TI RUN AS A LAST RESORT. I THINK THE ICON THAT IS GRAMBLING HAS A 679 YARD DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE RUN AND THE PASS. MANY OF THE OTHER TEAMS, BAMA, JSU, SU HAD 1200+ DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE RUN AND THE PASS.
Click to expand...

I agree. All I care about is having a good team that wins.
 
GSU, TU

GSU's Williams and TU's Comegys has installed this system, recruited good players, sell them on the system, coach the players well, and turn them loose.
Click to expand...

Indeed. TU is on borrowed time much to my and TU faithful's dismay. Comegy is as good as gone unless TU commences the move to Div I-AA. He's done all he can do at this level other than stay at TU and become a legendary coach. I think his ego is much larger than being content to stay at TU/Div II level even though he has a very good situation there.

As a TU grad, I do think Skegee needs to step it up a bit and play the Gramblings, the FAMUs, the Southerns, the Jackson States and the rest of the Div I-AA crew. MB has eclipsed us in this respect and soon so will Savanah State with them both moving to Div I-AA. I would like to see a TU vs GSU match up.:hat:
 

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