Should the Draft Return?
- Thread starter Bartram
- Start date
Mr. ShellShock
New Member
Should the draft return? HEY-YALL NAW!!!!
dacontinent
Preacher
It wouldn't work, mostly because of illiteracy.
Today's military forces are much too high tech for Joe Blow to be able to come in and contribute. If you want to talk statistics, ask a recruiter about the number of applicants who are rejected these days.
Here is a story...19 years ago I worked on a contract to build Navy sonar and fire control systems. Caspar Weinberger was the Secretary of Defense at the time and came in to actually execute the demo himself. Everything went flawless. We completed the test and he got up with a very disappointed look. We wondered what was wrong. He said, "...great stuff, ladies and gentlemen, but we have one very large problem. It is too advanced for the seamen who will have to operate it. You failed to meet the mentality of the target user who has a 6th grade education. Break it down and do it all over again."
I communicate with my friends who still work those contracts. The profile of the target user is still the same...and applicants are failing.
Today's military forces are much too high tech for Joe Blow to be able to come in and contribute. If you want to talk statistics, ask a recruiter about the number of applicants who are rejected these days.
Here is a story...19 years ago I worked on a contract to build Navy sonar and fire control systems. Caspar Weinberger was the Secretary of Defense at the time and came in to actually execute the demo himself. Everything went flawless. We completed the test and he got up with a very disappointed look. We wondered what was wrong. He said, "...great stuff, ladies and gentlemen, but we have one very large problem. It is too advanced for the seamen who will have to operate it. You failed to meet the mentality of the target user who has a 6th grade education. Break it down and do it all over again."
I communicate with my friends who still work those contracts. The profile of the target user is still the same...and applicants are failing.
M
Makaho Bedrock
Guest
I was a former Company Commander (Captain) in the Army in the Air Defense Artillery branch. I for one would be in favor of a Draft only in a dire emergency. Being a combat veteran myself, I can say first hand that I would only want to fight alongside someone that had the same courage and convictions that I did. I would rather have 20 enthuastic volunteers than 200 draftees that did'nt want to be there.
And I'ts not a matter of the ranks of the Army getting more non-white and poor, it's more of a matter of someone applying themselves towards a higher income level via the college route as opposed to entering military service after graduation.
The Military no longer accepts applicants without a High school diploma, even a GED is no longer accepted. The perceptions that some of you have about the military are extremely outdated. I graduated from JSU in 2000 with a 3.3 gpa, and the qualification course I took for the Patriot Missle System was more difficult than the Calculus and Statistics courses I took in college.
Do you not realize that less than one half of one percent of this nations total population is entrusted with 100% of it's defense???
A stat I was always pround of because I agreee with that .5%'s commitment.
I was a Platoon Leader in the 3rd Armored Calvary Regiment in the Gulf war....
I had 45 soldiers in my Vulcan Platoon and only 6 of them were black, 4 of them were hispanic...The rest were "white".
All of these men were volunteers and followed my leadership regardless of color, creed, or national origin. They took an oath saying that that they would follow me (aint no color in a foxhole).
So I guess I said that to say this,
Anything worth living for, is also worth dying for...
If it comes down to it......
What are you gonna do ???
And I'ts not a matter of the ranks of the Army getting more non-white and poor, it's more of a matter of someone applying themselves towards a higher income level via the college route as opposed to entering military service after graduation.
The Military no longer accepts applicants without a High school diploma, even a GED is no longer accepted. The perceptions that some of you have about the military are extremely outdated. I graduated from JSU in 2000 with a 3.3 gpa, and the qualification course I took for the Patriot Missle System was more difficult than the Calculus and Statistics courses I took in college.
Do you not realize that less than one half of one percent of this nations total population is entrusted with 100% of it's defense???
A stat I was always pround of because I agreee with that .5%'s commitment.
I was a Platoon Leader in the 3rd Armored Calvary Regiment in the Gulf war....
I had 45 soldiers in my Vulcan Platoon and only 6 of them were black, 4 of them were hispanic...The rest were "white".
All of these men were volunteers and followed my leadership regardless of color, creed, or national origin. They took an oath saying that that they would follow me (aint no color in a foxhole).
So I guess I said that to say this,
Anything worth living for, is also worth dying for...
If it comes down to it......
What are you gonna do ???
Bartram
Brand HBCUbian
Good stuff.
Outstanding replies. (good to get some FREAKING SOLID dialogue every once in a while.
)
Welp, Makaho, let me work backwards from your solid reply.
What am I gonna do? Continue to build and test the gear that you/armed forces used/use. I work for a defense contractor in Alabama where the Patriot, among other systems, was built, tested and shipped to you and your platoon. Right now i'm working on the next generation "Patriot Missile"-not PAC-3,, this system won't be fielded by some of your alumns until 2010-2012. Previous to that I worked at another defense contractor that built Soviet SA missile defense simulators that companies who build radar jamming pods for U.S. fighter aircraft could test against. I'm going to continue to engineer the best test sets, the best software algorithms and build the best products for the armed forces to use if it comes to that.
Alls I see doing most of the engineering and research on all these weapons is mostly non-blacks. I hope to change those stats a bit.
Now to your other comments; no, i'm not of the opinion that folks in the armed forces are basically dumb,,,, not when I have been to Huntsville, AL to see soldiers/marines practice fire and get indoctrinated on the equipment I build and test. I'm not in that group. I think you have basically good core beliefs that the country must be defended/someone must defend the country. (people will argue rather you are really "defending the country" or continuing a system,,, but reguardless, if you are in this country, you benefit directly and/or indirectly.)
I can appreciate your take on wanting someone in your foxhole that volunteered, but i'm just wondering how long will there be enough volunteers?
Outstanding replies. (good to get some FREAKING SOLID dialogue every once in a while.
)Welp, Makaho, let me work backwards from your solid reply.
What am I gonna do? Continue to build and test the gear that you/armed forces used/use. I work for a defense contractor in Alabama where the Patriot, among other systems, was built, tested and shipped to you and your platoon. Right now i'm working on the next generation "Patriot Missile"-not PAC-3,, this system won't be fielded by some of your alumns until 2010-2012. Previous to that I worked at another defense contractor that built Soviet SA missile defense simulators that companies who build radar jamming pods for U.S. fighter aircraft could test against. I'm going to continue to engineer the best test sets, the best software algorithms and build the best products for the armed forces to use if it comes to that.
Alls I see doing most of the engineering and research on all these weapons is mostly non-blacks. I hope to change those stats a bit.
Now to your other comments; no, i'm not of the opinion that folks in the armed forces are basically dumb,,,, not when I have been to Huntsville, AL to see soldiers/marines practice fire and get indoctrinated on the equipment I build and test. I'm not in that group. I think you have basically good core beliefs that the country must be defended/someone must defend the country. (people will argue rather you are really "defending the country" or continuing a system,,, but reguardless, if you are in this country, you benefit directly and/or indirectly.)
I can appreciate your take on wanting someone in your foxhole that volunteered, but i'm just wondering how long will there be enough volunteers?
ALCORNITE 86
Retired Soldier
Draftee vs Volunteer
I agree with MB, The Draft should not be an option unless a very dire emergency calls for it. Being a 20 year Army Veteran with 16 years as a Commissioned Officer, the horror stories of Vietnam have finally went away (about draftees). I've heard too many senior officers and NCOs talk about the difficulties they faced with draftees who only wanted to do their time, stay alive and go home.
Being away from the flagpole for five years, I have not seen the numbers (percentage wise) of blacks vs non-whites but saw a study where the Hispanic population in a few years will be the majority of the minorities in the military.
I know that the number of Blacks in college ROTC is so low that a number of schools may lose their programs (ROTC) if they do not meet a certain quota for Commissioning Officers.
Also, the numbers (blacks vs whites) do not show where they are assigned or actually working. You will find more blacks and minorities in your low density specialities than in some of the more technical challenged ones. Why? A kid (75 % white) with a GT Score of 120 + is not going to be your number one cannoneer on an Artillery piece, he will be the clerk or radar tech who sits in a van/shelter calculating a firing solution or behind a desk with a PC taking college courses to better himself when he leaves after his 3 to 4 year enlistment is up. Or he is one of the 450 selected few of one of the Ranger Battalions where most black soldiers (infantry and artillery types) do not want to go because they will not feel welcomed.
Just like MB, I commanded a Target Acqusition Battery of about 73 soldiers with only 5 blacks. They too were volunteers who lives I was accounted for during my 15 months of command and they trusted me to make the right decisions. No to the Draft!
I agree with MB, The Draft should not be an option unless a very dire emergency calls for it. Being a 20 year Army Veteran with 16 years as a Commissioned Officer, the horror stories of Vietnam have finally went away (about draftees). I've heard too many senior officers and NCOs talk about the difficulties they faced with draftees who only wanted to do their time, stay alive and go home.
Being away from the flagpole for five years, I have not seen the numbers (percentage wise) of blacks vs non-whites but saw a study where the Hispanic population in a few years will be the majority of the minorities in the military.
I know that the number of Blacks in college ROTC is so low that a number of schools may lose their programs (ROTC) if they do not meet a certain quota for Commissioning Officers.
Also, the numbers (blacks vs whites) do not show where they are assigned or actually working. You will find more blacks and minorities in your low density specialities than in some of the more technical challenged ones. Why? A kid (75 % white) with a GT Score of 120 + is not going to be your number one cannoneer on an Artillery piece, he will be the clerk or radar tech who sits in a van/shelter calculating a firing solution or behind a desk with a PC taking college courses to better himself when he leaves after his 3 to 4 year enlistment is up. Or he is one of the 450 selected few of one of the Ranger Battalions where most black soldiers (infantry and artillery types) do not want to go because they will not feel welcomed.
Just like MB, I commanded a Target Acqusition Battery of about 73 soldiers with only 5 blacks. They too were volunteers who lives I was accounted for during my 15 months of command and they trusted me to make the right decisions. No to the Draft!
Bartram
Brand HBCUbian
Very interesting takes from your (Army) perspectives.
You guys should have been on the panel stating your case.
I can see the military going "hispanic" and I can see black schools having problems keeping ROTC programs. It's an evolution of sorts. As successive generations of blacks have more options, they probably are less likely to choose ROTC/military career even out of necessity as the income levels of black families rise and families get to the point where they can send their kids to college themselves. The hispanics are just getting established and going through the same evolution that we went through from the 60s through the 90s.
Again, good takes.
You guys should have been on the panel stating your case.
I can see the military going "hispanic" and I can see black schools having problems keeping ROTC programs. It's an evolution of sorts. As successive generations of blacks have more options, they probably are less likely to choose ROTC/military career even out of necessity as the income levels of black families rise and families get to the point where they can send their kids to college themselves. The hispanics are just getting established and going through the same evolution that we went through from the 60s through the 90s.
Again, good takes.