NCAA allows perk for D-I programs

[D-NICE]

IWNJSU, I have to disagree with you, and others about athlete's getting paid. They're scholarship is not the same as a regular students scholarhsip. Their scholarship comes at a heavy price, and realistically should'nt even be compared to the regular student on scholarship.

A regular student on scholarship is not put on a national stage weekly, they're not subject to ridicule on Sportscenter, local radio, and news shows when they mess up, they're not asked to travel around the country, study a playbook, get up in the wee hours of the morning, and stay up late at night to practice, and still maintain a gpa just to participate. They're not asked to devote their free time for the good of school, like an athlete is pretty much mandated to devote his for the good of the school's team.

Professor's don't pressure them to perform well for the sake of keeping his job, as a coach pressure's a kid to perform well for him to keep his job, or better yet, set himself up for a better paying job, at a high profile place, with a high paying athletic apparel(sp) contract on the side. They don't have folk running to the school's bookstore buying department T-Shirts, like an athlete has folk buying a $100+ authentic jersey with his number on it, and not recieving a dime of that money.

I know education is the primary mission of the school to the student athlete, but the student athlete's primary mission to the school is to compete at a high level, put the school in a good light, help to increase enrollment at the school, get the school in the biggest bowl game possible with the highest payout, sell school merchandise, and pack stadiums, and arena's. Then at the end of the day, if they graduate it's all good. But notice, the graduation part is at the end of the spectrum. Two totally different missions, and the one the student athlete carries comes at a higher price, than the schools.

NICE

 

[IWJNSU]

Hey nobody said Ohio State is squeaky clean. None of the big time programs are. Do you think the University of Miami is clean with all those gold teeth players(Thanks MD) gracing their sidelines? Do you think LSU is clean? What about Georgia? The list goes on. My point was that my other alma mater does a real good job in providing resources for the "STUDENT" not just athlete. Alot of African American kids graduate from OSU. More than I can say for some other "Big time programs" who just recruit blacks to play ball and nothing else.

All the perks the coaches get is par for the course. Hell even Doc Greggs gets a car albiet its a Kia from one of the local dealerships and he is a band director. Certain positions at our schools and the bigger schools carry perks. It's just the big schools have more money, more alumni with money than we do.

I agree that "all" the big time programs are doing illegal and under the table "stuff". Like they say, "money is power". And "if you have the money, you have the power".

Actually, it starts at the high school level because we all know that this is where it all (recruiting) begins. I will never forget when the story came out about LeBron James driving a Hummer in high school.

Speaking of money, all the money The Federal Reserve Board can print between now and Saturday could help OSU (your other alma mater) from the beatdown they are about to receive at the hands of Michigan on national television this Saturday.

 

[IWJNSU]

IWNJSU, I have to disagree with you, and others about athlete's getting paid. They're scholarship is not the same as a regular students scholarhsip. Their scholarship comes at a heavy price, and realistically should'nt even be compared to the regular student on scholarship.

A regular student on scholarship is not put on a national stage weekly, they're not subject to ridicule on Sportscenter, local radio, and news shows when they mess up, they're not asked to travel around the country, study a playbook, get up in the wee hours of the morning, and stay up late at night to practice, and still maintain a gpa just to participate. They're not asked to devote their free time for the good of school, like an athlete is pretty much mandated to devote his for the good of the school's team.

Professor's don't pressure them to perform well for the sake of keeping his job, as a coach pressure's a kid to perform well for him to keep his job, or better yet, set himself up for a better paying job, at a high profile place, with a high paying athletic apparel(sp) contract on the side. They don't have folk running to the school's bookstore buying department T-Shirts, like an athlete has folk buying a $100+ authentic jersey with his number on it, and not recieving a dime of that money.

I know education is the primary mission of the school to the student athlete, but the student athlete's primary mission to the school is to compete at a high level, put the school in a good light, help to increase enrollment at the school, get the school in the biggest bowl game possible with the highest payout, sell school merchandise, and pack stadiums, and arena's. Then at the end of the day, if they graduate it's all good. But notice, the graduation part is at the end of the spectrum. Two totally different missions, and the one the student athlete carries comes at a higher price, than the schools.

NICE

I understand where you are coming from. But like I said in another post, if the "powers' that be" really, really wanted this to happen (incentives' for the athlete), it would have happened yesterday.

 

[IWJNSU]

Can someone help me out here. In reference to athletes getting paid, what type of "pay" are we talking about first off? Do "all" athletes get paid (example, cross country, swimming, tennis, golf, volleyball, track and field, etc.)? Do they get paid the "same"? Is it "fair" to pay individuals playing certain sports? And if so, is this discrimination? Do athletes at all the levels (division II and III) get "payed"? Some of these schools are barely making it now, I might add. Do the athletes' that are listed as second and third string get "paid" also? Also do they get "equal" pay? Do they have to pay (if it's monetary) and file income tax like everyone else yearly?

Serious responses please.

 

[Da Slim One]

Nice,

That was so well put. Athletes are required to maintain a higher GPA than regular students. They spend more time in the meeting room and weight room than the classroom. They sweat, push their bodies to the limit, and sometimes suffer life long injuries so that some geek who never saw a field can sit in the press box and call them a loser.

As long as they are performing and the team is doing well, then the $100 dollar handshakes are plenty, but what happens when the career ending injury comes along? We forget about them until SportsCenter does a where are they now episode.

I don't blame Maurice Clarett, yeah he is a basket case, but how are you going to keep doing crap and then schiznit on these kids and expect them to hush for loyalty to the school. As long as he was running TDs it was all good, but then throw him out in cold when he doesn't do what you want.

The NCAA and Big College sports are full of it.

 

[Da Slim One]

Can someone help me out here. In reference to athletes getting paid, what type of "pay" are we talking about first off? Do "all" athletes get paid (example, cross country, swimming, tennis, golf, volleyball, track and field, etc.)? Do they get paid the "same"? Is it "fair" to pay individuals playing certain sports? And if so, is this discrimination? Do athletes at all the levels (division II and III) get "payed"? Some of these schools are barely making it now, I might add. Do the athletes' that are listed as second and third string get "paid" also? Also do they get "equal" pay? Do they have to pay (if it's monetary) and file income tax like everyone else yearly?

Serious responses please.

I don't like the phrase "paying athletes", I think stipend is a better term. I think this could only apply to division I sports since most I-AA and below programs operate in the red anyway. I think that a stipend should be disbursed amongst all of the athletes in a program based on a percentage of revenue, not to exceed a set amount. I say all student-athletes in the department because alot of the programs are non-revenue and thus they raise revenue. I think that it should be included in the scholarship.

One day these kids may realize that they hold the power, without them there is no NCAA.

 

[PNeck019]

One day these kids may realize that they hold the power, without them there is no NCAA.

I respectfully disagree.

If all big-time college athletes walked out today, there'd be thousands more lining up to take their places. The stands would still be full, the tv would still be there.

In college, it ain't about Joe Blow vs. John Doe. It's about U vs. U.

 

[Da Slim One]

I know that, what I am saying is that they have more power then they may believe that they do.

 

[JR]

I agree that "all" the big time programs are doing illegal and under the table "stuff". Like they say, "money is power". And "if you have the money, you have the power".

Actually, it starts at the high school level because we all know that this is where it all (recruiting) begins. I will never forget when the story came out about LeBron James driving a Hummer in high school.

Speaking of money, all the money The Federal Reserve Board can print between now and Saturday could help OSU (your other alma mater) from the beatdown they are about to receive at the hands of Michigan on national television this Saturday.

Not so fast my friend.(Thanks Lee Corso) This is a rivalry game and even though on paper Michigan should win. Tressel is not Cooper and has taken a less talented OSU team to Ann Arbor(his first year) and whooped Michigan. Lloyd Carr got his first win against Tressel last year and is 1-2 against Tressel. This game is in the Shoe and I aint so sure about Michigan just coming in there and winning like that. Since we have lost alot of players to the NFL since the National Championship in 02 and a top 5 finish last year, we are reloading in 04 with our young players. Next year will be hell to pay. Remember this name....... Ted Ginn Jr. You will see him wreck Michigan on Saturday.

 

[MightyDog]

Up here in Normal, we are just trying to match what SU is doing on the legal side. We have covered a lot of grounds in a shot time and I am not concerned about all the perks, because we all know Automobile Dealerships are the backbone of college football. If your school cannot get a free automobile from a dealership somebody is not working very hard. Dealerships know that the big thing in a young athlete's life is a fine automobile. One school every starter drove SUVs, I don't know how they got them but they must have some rich relatives.

 

[IWJNSU]

I don't like the phrase "paying athletes", I think stipend is a better term. I think this could only apply to division I sports since most I-AA and below programs operate in the red anyway. I think that a stipend should be disbursed amongst all of the athletes in a program based on a percentage of revenue, not to exceed a set amount. I say all student-athletes in the department because alot of the programs are non-revenue and thus they raise revenue. I think that it should be included in the scholarship.

One day these kids may realize that they hold the power, without them there is no NCAA.

I understand what you are saying, but the definition of stipend is "a fixed and regular payment, such as a salary for services rendered."

I don't like to take a word (with a definition already) and give it a meaning to suit a particular situation.

 

[IWJNSU]

Not so fast my friend.(Thanks Lee Corso) This is a rivalry game and even though on paper Michigan should win. Tressel is not Cooper and has taken a less talented OSU team to Ann Arbor(his first year) and whooped Michigan. Lloyd Carr got his first win against Tressel last year and is 1-2 against Tressel. This game is in the Shoe and I aint so sure about Michigan just coming in there and winning like that. Since we have lost alot of players to the NFL since the National Championship in 02 and a top 5 finish last year, we are reloading in 04 with our young players. Next year will be hell to pay. Remember this name....... Ted Ginn Jr. You will see him wreck Michigan on Saturday.

So after Saturday when OSU "officially" becomes 6-5 will Tressel still be the coach or will he be shown the door? I am sure a 6-5 record is "unacceptable" at OSU.

 

[Da Slim One]

I understand what you are saying, but the definition of stipend is "a fixed and regular payment, such as a salary for services rendered."

I don't like to take a word (with a definition already) and give it a meaning to suit a particular situation.

I used the word stipend instead of paying because stipend is the word commonly used nationwide at institutions of higher learning for compensating graduate and research assistant. You are correct with the definition of the word but here the use still implies that the person is still a student and this is not a full fledge salary. Where as by using paying it implies a job or a career which is not the case.

Just as a GA or research assistant is compensated for their time and effort on various projects, so should the student-athlete. When Professor is published, and he uses research or information provided by a student, he is ethically bound to list the said person as a contributor. Research Assistants and Graduate Assistants use their time and knowledge to help raise funds, endowments, and grants for the University. It is safe to say that student-athletes do so as well, and at some universities on a far larger scale, yet all the get is just a scholarship. Why can't that be said for everyone else as well.

 

[IWJNSU]

I used the word stipend instead of paying because stipend is the word commonly used nationwide at institutions of higher learning for compensating graduate and research assistant. You are correct with the definition of the word but here the use still implies that the person is still a student and this is not a full fledge salary. Where as by using paying it implies a job or a career which is not the case.

Just as a GA or research assistant is compensated for their time and effort on various projects, so should the student-athlete. When Professor is published, and he uses research or information provided by a student, he is ethically bound to list the said person as a contributor. Research Assistants and Graduate Assistants use their time and knowledge to help raise funds, endowments, and grants for the University. It is safe to say that student-athletes do so as well, and at some universities on a far larger scale, yet all the get is just a scholarship. Why can't that be said for everyone else as well.

I understand your point. But I don't see athletes at any level getting paid "legally" (not in this lifetime, anyway). If some of the schools' and the NCAA "cared" about the student-athletes (like some of us), this "stipend" would have been in place already and we would not be having this discussion today.

Question? Why do you think the NCAA doesn't want to "get with the program" and pay the athletes considering all the "illegal activities" going on at different schools?

 

[MightyDog]

I don't have the figures, but athletes receive some compersation from the NCAA and don't some get an allowance each month?

OK PNECK you are the historian on these matters, how much do they get?

 

[Da Slim One]

I understand your point. But I don't see athletes at any level getting paid "legally" (not in this lifetime, anyway). If some of the schools' and the NCAA "cared" about the student-athletes (like some of us), this "stipend" would have been in place already and we would not be having this discussion today.

Question? Why do you think the NCAA doesn't want to "get with the program" and pay the athletes considering all the "illegal activities" going on at different schools?

It probably won't happen anytime soon due in part to how corporate Division I sports have become. For what its worth they cannot even admit that D-I needs a playoff, because of just how much money is tied up into these BCS bowls. For the record, the payout for this year's BCS bowls is at least $17 million.

The illegal activities will continue until something gives. As long as the NCAA mandates just how much a kid can make in a year with an outside job, there will always be the $100 handshakes.

I don't have the figures, but athletes receive some compersation from the NCAA and don't some get an allowance each month?

MD, its called I believe the needy student fund or something of the sort. To get it, the student athlete has provide copies of receipts for things that are needed. Even then its only like a couple hundred dollars.

 

[PNeck019]

I don't have the figures, but athletes receive some compersation from the NCAA and don't some get an allowance each month?

OK PNECK you are the historian on these matters, how much do they get?

Not that I'm aware of.

The only money I can think of is Pell Grants that a great percentage of players get early in the semester.

Personally, I didn't get a plug nickel above my athletic scholarship (except for a few semesters of academic schollys early on). No goods either, not even t-shirts or warmups that didn't have to be turned in, except for a letter jacket.

EDIT: I lie. My last year in school I was (still am...lol) married and therefore lived off campus. I got a R&B check for $350 a month. Rent was $290, so I had $60 for food.....and I wonder why I was so much thinner then....lol

I think most guys nowadays get t-shirts, warmups, and such. They may even get some sort of monthly payment from the school for their room and board if they live off campus.

They also sometimes get a per diem on the road, but it's minimal, like 5-10 bucks per meal.

 

[JaguarNation99]

I don't have the figures, but athletes receive some compersation from the NCAA and don't some get an allowance each month?

OK PNECK you are the historian on these matters, how much do they get?

The only compensation athletics can receive from the NCAA is the special assistance fund to which wbishop3 alluded. There are things such as Pell grants as PNeck said, but those are available to all students. Athletes are allowed to work at any non-athletic department entity on or off campus during the academic year. Student-athletes on full scholarship can earn up to $2000 during the school year. Student-athletes on partial scholarship can earn up a maximum amount that, combined with other financial aid, equals the value of a full scholarship plus $2000.

 

[JR]

So after Saturday when OSU "officially" becomes 6-5 will Tressel still be the coach or will he be shown the door? I am sure a 6-5 record is "unacceptable" at OSU.

No not at all. He won a National Championship, something most coaches at the other Major schools can't say. Only Lou Holtz, Lloyd Carr, Bobby Bowden, Joe Paterno, Philip Fulmer, Bob Stoops, Larry Coker, Pete Carroll and Nick Saban can boast that. Lou, Bobby and Joe are on the downside of their careers.Fulmer has been just average since he won and he maintains a job at Tenn. Tressel won the first National title since Woody Hayes did it back in the 60's. So he is basically reveered in Columbus like that Boston Red Sox manager is.

They have beaten Michigan 2 out of the 3 years they have played them under Tressel. Finished in the top 5 last year. So why would they fire him?
Only an other than Clarett scandal will get him fired. The fans may be disappointed that OSU is an average team this year, but hell they have filled practically every NFL roster with players the last 2 years. A National title buys you at least 10 years at a school as long as there are no major issues and they stay competative. Look how long Cooper lasted with those teams of his underachieving with no title. He basically pulled a Mack Brown. Mack can't beat Oklahoma or win the big game.

OSU fans are also knowledgable fans. They know OSU is going be loaded next year and the team is young. There are only 17 Seniors on the entire roster and we know all of them are not playing. Michigan is in the same boat. Both are young teams. The Big 10 is very weak this year because none of the top teams can beat the top teams outside the conference. Remember Notre Dame shellacked Michigan and Michigan St.

 

[IWJNSU]

It probably won't happen anytime soon due in part to how corporate Division I sports have become. For what its worth they cannot even admit that D-I needs a playoff, because of just how much money is tied up into these BCS bowls. For the record, the payout for this year's BCS bowls is at least $17 million.

The illegal activities will continue until something gives. As long as the NCAA mandates just how much a kid can make in a year with an outside job, there will always be the $100 handshakes.

Thanks for your "feedback" on the questions I asked. I was always told, if you want to know something, ask. I really appreciate it.

 

[IWJNSU]

I don't have the figures, but athletes receive some compersation from the NCAA and don't some get an allowance each month?

OK PNECK you are the historian on these matters, how much do they get?

MightyDog, PNECK, and JN99,

Thanks for the information. I was always told, if you want to know something, ask. I appreciate it.

 

[IWJNSU]

No not at all. He won a National Championship, something most coaches at the other Major schools can't say. Only Lou Holtz, Lloyd Carr, Bobby Bowden, Joe Paterno, Philip Fulmer, Bob Stoops, Larry Coker, Pete Carroll and Nick Saban can boast that. Lou, Bobby and Joe are on the downside of their careers.Fulmer has been just average since he won and he maintains a job at Tenn. Tressel won the first National title since Woody Hayes did it back in the 60's. So he is basically reveered in Columbus like that Boston Red Sox manager is.

They have beaten Michigan 2 out of the 3 years they have played them under Tressel. Finished in the top 5 last year. So why would they fire him?
Only an other than Clarett scandal will get him fired. The fans may be disappointed that OSU is an average team this year, but hell they have filled practically every NFL roster with players the last 2 years. A National title buys you at least 10 years at a school as long as there are no major issues and they stay competative. Look how long Cooper lasted with those teams of his underachieving with no title. He basically pulled a Mack Brown. Mack can't beat Oklahoma or win the big game.

OSU fans are also knowledgable fans. They know OSU is going be loaded next year and the team is young. There are only 17 Seniors on the entire roster and we know all of them are not playing. Michigan is in the same boat. Both are young teams. The Big 10 is very weak this year because none of the top teams can beat the top teams outside the conference. Remember Notre Dame shellacked Michigan and Michigan St.

Last but not least,

Thanks JR for the history lesson. I was just "messin" with you. A yes or no would have sufficed. :winkgrin:

 

[Jagster]

I agree, but there is something that has to be done. These kids are getting pimped. Everyone is getting rich off of their pain and suffering but them. The NCAA w/its BCS pays out 13 million to each BCS participant. Then for every school in a bowl game from a conference, a school gets paid. The coaches makes millions, then gets a free ride, house, food, plus incentives.

All that a kid get is a pathetic scholarship and a bunch of lies.

So what are you saying? The schools get a profit? Not at all. What they get are the funds to continually enhance a program, something we don't have.

On the news the other day, WAFB Ch. 9 here in Baton Rouge, showed how LSU has the latest technology to put together game film, digitally, and separate the plays by type, down, yardage, position, rush, pass, etc. and all of the coaches can download the specific plays to their laptops to analyze anywhere they are. Then they mentioned that Southern declined to be a part of the story. Our coaches, to my knowledge, don't have computers; and secondly, all we have is a damned 1992 VHS recorder and a VCR to go through, and produce, game film. THATS WHERE THAT MONEY GOES!

LSU is in the process of completing over $165 million worth of athletic improvements since the $50 million expansion on the east side of Tiger Stadium. Now they are tearing down the existing west side to rebuild a new pressbox and an enlarged stadium club where seats start at $1950 per season each. These muthas got a waiting list for those seats already.

So the coach might get $3 million a year, but at the same time these guys are getting the best opportunity for them the get better at that craft. With the weight rooms and all that student athletes have plus the academic support unit, a $12.3 million addition to the program. He, or she, SHOULD have the ability to finish school and be successful in something. It doesnt happen like that, but thats what it looks like.

This is the kind of stuff we, HBCU's, are fighting against. So when a kid desides to go to ULL or ULM, two nonexistent PWC's, instead of Southern or Grambling, IMHO we are fighting that mindset. Hell, I can't get our folks to give to keep the football field in great condition, so in my mind this is a lost cause for us.

 

[PNeck019]

So what are you saying? The schools get a profit? Not at all. What they get are the funds to continually enhance a program, something we don't have.

On the news the other day, WAFB Ch. 9 here in Baton Rouge, showed how LSU has the latest technology to put together game film, digitally, and separate the plays by type, down, yardage, position, rush, pass, etc. and all of the coaches can download the specific plays to their laptops to analyze anywhere they are. Then they mentioned that Southern declined to be a part of the story. Our coaches, to my knowledge, don't have computers; and secondly, all we have is a damned 1992 VHS recorder and a VCR to go through, and produce, game film. THATS WHERE THAT MONEY GOES!

LSU is in the process of completing over $165 million worth of athletic improvements since the $50 million expansion on the east side of Tiger Stadium. Now they are tearing down the existing west side to rebuild a new pressbox and an enlarged stadium club where seats start at $1950 per season each. These muthas got a waiting list for those seats already.

So the coach might get $3 million a year, but at the same time these guys are getting the best opportunity for them the get better at that craft. With the weight rooms and all that student athletes have plus the academic support unit, a $12.3 million addition to the program. He, or she, SHOULD have the ability to finish school and be successful in something. It doesnt happen like that, but thats what it looks like.

This is the kind of stuff we, HBCU's, are fighting against. So when a kid desides to go to ULL or ULM, two nonexistent PWC's, instead of Southern or Grambling, IMHO we are fighting that mindset. Hell, I can't get our folks to give to keep the football field in great condition, so in my mind this is a lost cause for us.

Excellent points all.

 

[IWJNSU]

On the news the other day, WAFB Ch. 9 here in Baton Rouge, showed how LSU has the latest technology to put together game film, digitally, and separate the plays by type, down, yardage, position, rush, pass, etc. and all of the coaches can download the specific plays to their laptops to analyze anywhere they are. Then they mentioned that Southern declined to be a part of the story. Our coaches, to my knowledge, don't have computers; and secondly, all we have is a damned 1992 VHS recorder and a VCR to go through, and produce, game film. THATS WHERE THAT MONEY GOES!

I, for one, am not shocked at the latest technology or anything else for that matter. We are talking about LSU. The "flagship" school of Louisiana. They have the "big" time boosters plus the fan support that other schools in the state don't have.


LSU is in the process of completing over $165 million worth of athletic improvements since the $50 million expansion on the east side of Tiger Stadium. Now they are tearing down the existing west side to rebuild a new pressbox and an enlarged stadium club where seats start at $1950 per season each. These muthas got a waiting list for those seats already.

This has been their way of thinking for a long time, in order to get the best players (in-state and out-of-state), you have to have the best facilities. "Build it, and they will come". Unfortunately, other schools are just catching on.

So the coach might get $3 million a year, but at the same time these guys are getting the best opportunity for them the get better at that craft. With the weight rooms and all that student athletes have plus the academic support unit, a $12.3 million addition to the program. He, or she, SHOULD have the ability to finish school and be successful in something. It doesnt happen like that, but thats what it looks like.

I totally agree with the above statement. "The choices we make in life, we must live with them for the rest of our lives."

This is the kind of stuff we, HBCU's, are fighting against. So when a kid desides to go to ULL or ULM, two nonexistent PWC's, instead of Southern or Grambling, IMHO we are fighting that mindset. Hell, I can't get our folks to give to keep the football field in great condition, so in my mind this is a lost cause for us.

And this battle will continue for a very long time, I might add.