I need your help.


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eminentJSUtiger

Guest
for any criminal justice major or alumni that has come from JSU, you can or will feel me. i am currently taking Dr. Jimmy Bell, yes the seminar class........the 65 page paper, plus the drilling from the presentation. in one of my chapters i am conducting a public survey on the opinions of citizens and political terrorism. if any of you can, please post your opinion. your services will be greatly appreciated.
 
Would you expand on that, please? I'd love to help you out. We HBCU'ers have to stick together to DEFEAT the PSYCHOS who TEACH US!

:D

Seriously, though, I am not too clear on what it is you wanna know.
 

what i would like to know is your personal opinion on issues involved with political terrorism. for example, the oklahoma bombings, the waco incident, the ku klux klan. i really want your personal feelings/ opinion. ANY opinion is welcome, cuz i know my fellow SWACpagers have strong opinions.
 
Ok, do you want our opinion on what we thought about they, the govt. and law enforcement handled them or why we think they take place.
 
Are you talking about terrorism that is done out of disagreement with political causes, government regulations, and laws? Also, do you want to narrow the topic to domestic terrorism or include international terrorism? I will say now that the goverments attitude toward domestic terrorism is much different from international terrorism.
 
ice man you hit it on the head. i take opinions on all of that. i am including all forms of terrorism.

jelli you are also correct.

let me narrow down some questons:
1) is the law just in dealing with terrorism?

2)if and how can terrorist attacks be prevented?

3)is the government accurate in their tactics in responding to any type of terrorism in international countries....


etc.....etc.....etc....................

if you have any other concerns or feelings with terrorism......please post.
 
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Thinking.........:rolleyes:
 
The governments attitude toward international terrorism has been great. The have gone all out to prevent and capture those who are responsible. The methods used to deter international terrorism has been affected. Usually when a terrorist attack from a international group is successful its because those targeted are slack or too relaxed to make sure they take the necessary precautions. The attack on the USS Cole was successful because the Navy was alseep. The majority of young people in the military have no idea how easy it is to die when you're not alert and don't take your job serious. Their attitudes led me to getting out.

The goverments attitude toward domestic terrorism has been slack. My biggest concern is the goverments inability to release a profile of the people who has the potential to commit these crimes. The government doesn't want to release this profile because it would be your all american white boy. I bet if some young black male would have pull the Ryder Truck in front of the building like Timothy McVeigh a Security Guard would have asked him to move it. The school shooting will continue because the goverment don't want to tell John and Jane Doe that they might be raising a mass murder.
 
Ice Man,
I agree w/ your comments about international terrorism, but I have some qualms about domestic tactics you propose. We do not live in a police state, where our every action is regulated by the govt. It should not be the government's responsibility to tell Mr. and Mrs. Doe about their son. The Doe's should be responsible enough themselves to know about their son, bad ass lil Johnny. Sad to say, but in a democratic society, when the Doe's fail to assume responsibility, all kind of terrible consequences may happen. But I look at it as the price we pay to live in a free society.
With respect to Oklahoma, hindsight is 20/20. It is so easy to say after the fact what should have been done to prevent it. Let's see, Maybe if the govt. would not have allowed moving vans to be parked there. Maybe if the govt. would have had bomb sniffing dogs in the area beforehand. Maybe if the govt. would have had more police in place. Maybe if the govt had searched everybody. Get my point. There comes a point where government regulations , done in the name of "prevention", become an infringement on our lives and our pursuit of happiness.
The profiles that you're speaking about would give the govt even more legitimacy to dig into our lives (more than they do now).
There's only so much that can be done to prevent terroristic attacks at home. Unfortunately, we just have to be prepared to react to them. I mean, who could have rightfully known beforehand that McVeigh was gonna do what he did?? Who could have rightfully known beforehand that those kids at Columbine were gonna shoot up the school??
 
Mighty Hornet,

Your interpetations of my comments are way off base. I'm not suggesting the government take control of people lives to prevent terrorism.

I'm requesting the government release information that people can use to take precautions. Black men still feel the effects of the governments attack on the Black Panther Party. Why? Because the government released a profile of who might be a member of this group. Guess what? It fit damn near every black man in america. Did we do anything for white people to be afraid of us or to take precautions when they see us? Hell no, our government told them to be cautious of people who look like we do.

Look there is a profile of gang members and young black men they are killing each other. All I'm asking is the government acknowledge who and what the biggest threat to this country look like. Do they hesitate to release the profile of the international terrorist? For the record, tell me what does he look like?
 
Ice,
If I'm reading your comments wrong, sorry.

But, still I have a problem w/ profiles. They are not reliable and really not a true predictor of who may do what. Like you say, profiles were not accurate with the Black Panther Party and they are not accurate while I'm driving on America's highways as a black man. They won't be accurate in establishing some kind of foolproof method to identify terrorists either. These profiles just give governmental agents (FBI, police, etc) license to infringe upon our rights as citizens and then cover themselves by saying that we "fit the profile".

When you really think about, In a "free" society like ours, the govt can do little to nothing to prevent terroristic acts here. If Johnny Doe decides to get in his car tomorrow morning, drive to Walla Walla, Vermont, leave a bomb at a school, and drive back to Wherever, Maine, what laws are in place to stop him???? He's free to travel to Walla Walla. He's free to buy the ingredients for a bomb. He doesn't have to inform the govt. where he's going, when he's going, and why he's going. It's really nothing that can be done to stop this act, even if Johnny fits the profile.

btw, I like the topic and the different viewpoints. Where is everybody else w/ their opinions????
 
MH,

You're still missing the point. What a profile would do is possibly alert law enforcement that Johnny Doe has purchased supplies that could be used to build a bomb. I think you feel this way because law enforcement has abuse the use of profiles to investigate people of color. You're talking about racial profiling, which I agree is wrong. I'm talking about one that is based on the facts, not race.

I bet if you went out and purchase the same supplies McVeigh and crew purchased whoever sold these supplies to you would have alerted the police. They probably would do a little investigating themselves. I can hear them now, "Where is your farm? What you gonna do with all this fertilizer? You ain't going blow up anything are you?

A profile in Johnny Doe's case might have prevented him from getting the supplies without being detected. It might have led someone to question his use of the supplies.

Don't let the abuse of profiles by racist cops under estimate their use in preventing terrorism. Profiles have proven to be a useful in preventing international terrorism and could be very useful in preventing domestic terrorism.
 
Originally posted by Ice Man
You're still missing the point. What a profile would do is possibly alert law enforcement that Johnny Doe has purchased supplies that could be used to build a bomb.
Click to expand...
I don't think the govt should be in my business to the extent that they know what I'm buying at the damn store. Should the govt be notified if I buy fertilizer, if I buy some nails, if I buy some flour. Hitler aint our leader and we don't live in a society where the govt. oughtta be involved in our life to that extent.

You're talking about racial profiling, which I agree is wrong. I'm talking about one that is based on the facts, not race.
Click to expand...
I'm sure the police, who have wrongly detained black drivers, would say that the stop was not based on race. Just like that is wrong, it would also be wrong for the govt to know that I went to the store and bought some nails. Does that make me a potential "terrorist"?

My point is that when creating profiles, there is also the potential for a whole lot of wrongdoing and abuses.

Call me selfish, call me a nationalist or whatever, but the tactics used in international terrorism shouldn't necessarily equate to the tactics used in domestic terrorism.

For the record, I'm sure the govt. has surveillance and profiles already. But at some point, Big Brother has to back off and let me pursue my happiness!
 
MH,

You can't be serious. Going to store to buy nails does not make you a potential terrorist, but going to store buying a large quantity of fertilizer without owning a farm or having a legit use of it and purchasing the other supplies that McVeigh and crew did, does make you a potential terrorist.
 
Ice,
I like to make outlandish statements to drive home my point. LOL
Go back and read my statement again w/ that in mind and tell me if you understand the point I'm trying to make.
 

I understand the point you're trying to make. I think its way off base to conclude that the governement release of a profile will allow the governement to monitor your every move.

Hell, we wouldn't even fit the profile. It's time for the white man to feel the heat that so many of us have. If a profile can prevent what happen in Oklahoma, I'm all for it.
 
Ice,
I don't understand how a profile can prevent a terrorist act.

If a fool wants to do it, he can and will do it--Profiles or no profiles!!!!!

So what's the point of even creating "profiles" when they will do nothing to prevent terrorism, and in the process, create an avenue for more govt intrusion?
 
MH,

Let me file this away. Mighty Hornet likes to make outlandish statements.

Is the bombing of the World Trade Center the only international attempt of terrorism in the United States? Why haven't there been more?
 
Originally posted by Ice Man


Let me file this away. Mighty Hornet likes to make outlandish statements.
Click to expand...
LOL, You alright w/ me Ice Man!!!!!!


Other than the WTC bombing, I cant think of another international terrorist act on US soil. If there are more, refresh my memory. I can't answer the question why there aren't more attempts here. Terrorists are very irrational and it's kind of hard to figure out the thoughts and actions of irrational people.

btw, do you agree that there are already covert actions here by the govt. "profiling" terrorists? What good would releasing this information do other than creating a panic state where everything we do and purchase (nails, glue ) would raise a red flag. (I used "nails" and "glue" to make a point :D )


<font size=1>And for the record, Kobe sucks!!!!!</font>
 
Why you wanna go there? Man, Kobe didn't have anything to do with this, I bet David Stern got a profile of Kobe in his office. LOL

You keep saying we, if the government consider people like us as possible terrorist a profile would have been released a long time ago.

The reason why there hasn't been only one act of international terrorism on our soil is because the people who are more likely to commit such an act can not purchase the supplies without bringing suspicion from the seller, people around them, and law enforcement.

I agree the governemnt has covert actions going on, but that's not enough. One successful act is one to many.
 
The U.S. attitude towards domestic terrorism was laxed primarily because we never really considered that someone would actually try to do that kinda stuff over here. Maybe it's our arrogance. So, when the isolated Trade Center or FBI building bombings occur, we are so shocked. Furthermore, because we are a democratic society, the FBI ain't supposed to do the profiling and post that info. for all the country to see. Like mighty hornet stated, it'll create panic, chaos, and will likely lead to the castigation of every middle eastern (since there were terrorism appears to be worst) visitor to this country.

Ice Man explained the effects the profiling of the potential Black Panther members covered every black man walking. The same may likely result if we started trying to publicly identify terrorist. Now, I'm willing to bet that there have been man behind the scenes arrests of persons who have come over with the idea of blowing some stuff up. Through CIA and FBI intelligence, I'm sure it happens a lot more often than we think.

Absolute prevention is impossible. We cannot afford to provide protection to the general public as we do for isolated so-called important individuals, like a president or prime minister. Attempting to bomb the White House is a quick trip to prison. But more publicly accessible venues aren't so easy to protect. And if a guy is crazy enough to try to bomb a building in Bucktussle, KY, who's gonna stop him???
 
eminentJSUtiger,

What was your results of the public survey?

MH, Robber,

Since the attacks on September 11 have you looked back on our discussion about terrorism? Hats off to a couple of guys who considered back in June that terrorism was worth discussing.

Was the SWAC Page like of input from others on this subject a reflection of the nation attitude before the attacks?
 
Ice,

I just went back and read our comments again on this topic. I think we brought out some good points. Very interesting!!

I think the lack of input could be a reflection of a nationwide attitude before Sept. 11. Nobody ever thought it could happen here, especially to the extent that it did.
 
I just went through these posts and am like, "WOW!"

It's really funny how the gov't came up with 19 names and made all them arrests just one day after this "surpise" attack. They knew of these guys well before they did what they did. I just wish this was yet another "behind the scenes" arrest that we never hear about.:(
 
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