HBCUs vs PWCs

[Jafus (Thinker)]

TSU/BAMA,

Well, I guess it depends on the way you look at it, Jafus. I think Texas Southern Fan made a very valid point.

Well, I guess it does depend on how you look at it and you may think Texas Southern Fan made a very vaild point. Personally, I think it is a rediculus statement and is loaded with a dangerous interpretation of a functioning organizations set-up with-in a larger working organization.

An Example:

Texas Southern University's SWAC Basketball Tournament Championship and inability to beat Big South Conference Basketball Tournament Champion North Carolina-Ashville.

The inability to win that game should not take away from the student athletes at Texas Southern University hard work and accomplishment of winning the SWAC Basketball Tournament Championship.

If it really does, then take down that 2003 SWAC Basketball Tournament Championship Banner and erase it out of the Texas Southern University Basketball Record archives.

It is really silly and lacks a measure of organization to state that a conference championship does not mean anything. It might be one thing and even fare to want to measure your competitiveness outside of a said conference affiliation.

But to suggest that your play in those games outside of said conference affiliation or even worse those games should weigh on your conference champion is hypicritical, unrealistic and flies in the face and meaning for the point of becoming a member of a conference affiliation.

If this is truly your mode of operation, then either join the conference that you believe provides you with a more meaningful conference championship or become an independent affiliate member in the NCAA organization.

I honestly believe if Texas Southern University's football program won a SWAC Championship, while losing their non-conference games against PWC programs. Both of you would celebrate and be encouraged by the SWAC championship, while reviewing and making a note of what would be neccessary to compete against the non-conference PWC programs.

Neither one of you would seriously suggest to other SWAC fans that the SWAC football championship did not really mean anything. Can you honestly say that this is not true?

 

[EB]

I do not have the numbers. But I believe that the SIAC, a D-II HBCU conference, has a winning record against the SWAC for the last few years. SWAC schools have played against Kentucky State, Albany State and Fort Valley State. I do not think that the results of those games were an accident. Kentucky State has not had much of a tradition for decades. But Fort Valley and Albany State are in areas where there is a lot of talent and have won before.

When Southern and Jackson State won post-season games, NCAA and NIT, in basketball during the '90s, we cheered. When Southern won games in the baseball playoffs, we cheered. When Rickey Weeks won the award for the best player in the nation, we cheered.

I understand what TS fan is saying. Sure, it is nice to win a conference championship. But why just be satisfied with that? Why not try to be the best conference? There was a time that one could argue correctly that the SWAC had the best talent, regardless of division (one, two, three, or NAIA). It was definitely proven on Sundays. Some of us were alive during those days.

 

[Jafus (Thinker)]

EB,

I do not have the numbers. But I believe that the SIAC, a D-II HBCU conference, has a winning record against the SWAC for the last few years. SWAC schools have played against Kentucky State, Albany State and Fort Valley State. I do not think that the results of those games were an accident. Kentucky State has not had much of a tradition for decades. But Fort Valley and Albany State are in areas where there is a lot of talent and have won before.

First of all, I am not sure what Albany State vs. SWAC match-ups are you refering too. The only SWAC versus SIAC match-ups that I recall over the last three or four years are UAPB vs. Kentucky State and Lane, TxSU versus Lane, and Fort Valley State versus Alcorn State.

In my opinion, it is obvious if you have been following the SWAC that these match-ups have had some of the top tier SIAC programs versus the bottom tier SWAC and at any level usually the top tier teams will beat the bottom tier teams.

Remember, currently a Kentucky State (4-1) only lost is to a bad UAPB (2-4) team, it was 36-9. UAPB lone other 2003 win is over a MVSU (0-5), 27-7. KSU won the game last year in overtime 47-44 against a 3-8 UAPB squad.

Note, a Fort Valley State (4-1) whom only lost is to a highly ranked Valdosta State team on the road won against a Alcorn State (1-4) 4 staright losses at home 31-20. Remember Alcorn State's only other 2003 win is over UAPB 37-10.

When Southern and Jackson State won post-season games, NCAA and NIT, in basketball during the '90s, we cheered. When Southern won games in the baseball playoffs, we cheered. When Rickey Weeks won the award for the best player in the nation, we cheered.

???????

I understand what TS fan is saying. Sure, it is nice to win a conference championship. But why just be satisfied with that? Why not try to be the best conference?

I suppose it is good that you understand what Texas Southern Fan is saying because it is obvious I am in disagreement with what he has stated. I still respect him and most of his opinions, but not on this issue.

Secondly, whom has openly stated that any SWAC program is satified with a conference championship? Where have you scene an administrator, coach, or player state that the where statisfied with just a conference championship? Why have you decided that this is the case?

There was a time that one could argue correctly that the SWAC had the best talent, regardless of division (one, two, three, or NAIA). It was definitely proven on Sundays. Some of us were alive during those days.

Many of us where alive during this time and I am not sure how this correlates with Texas Southern Fan's statement that winning a conference championship does not mean anything if you can not beat a PWC non-conference opponent.

It should be noted Grambling State's 2003 lost are to a Division I A PWC and to the current NCAA Division I AA #1 team with 33 voter. It is a reason that McNeese State is the #1 team in NCAA Division I AA and Grambling State is ranked #17. The reason that playing against the #1 team is highly publicized is because it does notb happen that often and the #1 team in nation is very talented.

Remember also the last two times Grambling State played a PWC they beat the two teams on the road, i.e. Portland State and Nicholls State. The years that Southern won the SWAC they beat Northwestern State.

Nicholls State is the program that Texas Southern lost to last week, 64-5 as well as losing to Southwest Texas State last season. So just over the last 5 years it is not the SWAC champion that is having difficulties losing to non-conference PWC programs, is it?

 

[Donald K. Willi]

Jafus,

We didn't play Valdosta State this year.We lost to Winston-Salem State 27-21 in a game that was played in Macon,Ga.

 

[TSU/BAMA]

Jafus, could it be that we are talking about two different things?

 

[Jafus (Thinker)]

Butch Wms.,

Jafus,

We didn't play Valdosta State this year.We lost to Winston-Salem State 27-21 in a game that was played in Macon,Ga.

I will take that one on the chin. I was going off the top of my head. That was Albany State that lost to Valdosta State early this season. Thanks for the correction.

TSU/BAMA,

Jafus, could it be that we are talking about two different things?

It looks like several people are talking about several different things. My original response was to Texas Southern Fan's Statement about his comments that SWAC Championship does not mean anything if you lose to your non-conference PWC opponents and other responded to mine.

So I responded to their comments. If Texas Southern Fan's meant something else buy his statement I am sure he will gladly exchange that with me when he gets a chance. Maybe you and EB have talked to him about his statement and are responding in kind to what he has expressed to you in regards to his statement. But I am only aware of what he stated in the post listed above.

 

[nickderiso]

Originally posted by Jafus (Thinker)
Remember also the last two times Grambling State played a PWC they beat the two teams on the road, i.e. Portland State and Nicholls State. The years that Southern won the SWAC they beat Northwestern State.

ALSO:
Actually, the last time Grambling played outside of its conference on the road before the SJSU game was in Lake Charles last year, where the Tigers got destroyed by McNeese.