Graduate degrees from elite schools, do we underestimate them?


Brother...it's who she knew.

Where do you think she met those people? Let's see. Goes to Harvard, works for a Gear up program, interns with Congressional Black Caucus Foundation, works on an advisory board dealing with Higher ED, happens to meet Carmel Martin, (former Ted Kennedy and Tom Daschle aide) who ends up going to work for the Obama administration and heading up Educational policy. Carmel brings Zakiya over, she works on the administration's first big Higher ED policy (Gainful Employment) and gets bumped up quickly to the White House. Girl only graduated from college in 2006.
 
Founder, in grad school, yes. In undergrad, no, no, and heck no. I love my professors at JSU but I don't remember too many former Presidential advisers, cabinet members, fortune 500 ceo's on faculty.

As for my current job, that was all individual hustle and George Mason. I took an Educational Policy class at George Mason and the professor was the former Assistant Secretary for Post-secondary Education in the Clinton Administration, his Assistant's wife is currently the Director of International Affairs at the Department of Education and she was a former Assistant Secretary for Postsecondary ED and Deputy Assistant Secretary for Policy. My current boss holds her old job. She connected us. One day, she came to speak to our class and I politely introduced myself, asked her for a meeting since we worked in the same building and she made an introduction.

Yes, it was God and my hustle that made the difference but without going to George Mason for grad, I don't think those same channels open up.



Pops, when I was at UAPB, my department chair had friends who worked for the USDA in Agricultural Education and Research and in Economic Research. UAPB has a damn good Agricultural Program (undergrad and grad) and I have a slew of friends who now work for the USDA from recommendations from him and from being Ag majors. My microbiology and botany professor had good friends who worked for the FDA, and they have a facility in Jefferson, AR (right outside of Pine Bluff) where I have 3 good friends who work there and at the National Toxicology Center for Research. And my Anatomy and Physiology teacher knew folks at the Social Security Administration; this Que I know, who was a Nursing major, got his job there from a professor's recommendation and he's been there since about 1998.

Our HBCUs schools do know people and the channels are open to us. There may not be a lot of channels, but they are out there and they're open.
 

Well apparently, Mark's market value Harvard degree wasn't the factor that got him his Legislative Aide job, since it was his professor who "basically walked him into an internship at the White House". From what you posted, it sounds like a classic "not what you know but who you know" job. And since the market value of Mark's job wasn't taken into consideration, I'm guessing neither was the academic value, since it was a hook-up job, if in fact Mark's major pertained to his Legislative Aide job.

Lioness,
I can just speak from my personal perspective. I see what happened in Mark's case a lot. My point was that the reason that Mark was able to get walked into that internship then that job on the hill is because he had a professor that had a relationship with the administration. I have seen similar things with the Morehouse network.
 
Check this out:

My first job was with Science Applications International Corporation as a National Security Analyst....here is the list of hired:

Grambling - me
Jackson State - black female
Michigan State - white female
Stanford - American Indian (India Decent)
USC - White Male

Now those school beat out Harvard grads and Yale grads. After I worked a year I was in charge in developing the next interview program. I read the reports and some of the interviewees stated that the Ivy League graduates lacked the social skills necessary to communicate with military personnel. One of the guys on the interview team who was a retired Special Forces Colonel stated that Ivy League kids lack a struggle in college. Meaning if they are faced with a "common sense" decision it would take them longer to make a decisive decision.

yeah founder that what I got from this article I found online.

It didn’t dawn on me that there might be a few holes in my education until I was about 35. I’d just bought a house, the pipes needed fixing, and the plumber was standing in my kitchen. There he was, a short, beefy guy with a goatee and a Red Sox cap and a thick Boston accent, and I suddenly learned that I didn’t have the slightest idea what to say to someone like him. So alien was his experience to me, so unguessable his values, so mysterious his very language, that I couldn’t succeed in engaging him in a few minutes of small talk before he got down to work. Fourteen years of higher education and a handful of Ivy League degrees, and there I was, stiff and stupid, struck dumb by my own dumbness. “Ivy retardation,†a friend of mine calls this. I could carry on conversations with people from other countries, in other languages, but I couldn’t talk to the man who was standing in my own house …
The first disadvantage of an elite education, as I learned in my kitchen that day, is that it makes you incapable of talking to people who aren’t like you. Elite schools pride themselves on their diversity, but that diversity is almost entirely a matter of ethnicity and race. With respect to class, these schools are largely—indeed increasingly—homogeneous.

If you’re afraid to fail, you’re afraid to take risks, which begins to explain the final and most damning disadvantage of an elite education: that it is profoundly anti-intellectual. This will seem counterintuitive … being an intellectual is not the same as being smart. Being an intellectual means more than doing your homework.
If so few kids come to college understanding this, it is no wonder. They are products of a system that rarely asked them to think about something bigger than the next assignment. The system forgot to teach them, along the way to the prestige admissions and the lucrative jobs, that the most important achievements can’t be measured by a letter or a number or a name. It forgot that the true purpose of education is to make minds, not careers.

Being an intellectual begins with thinking your way outside of your assumptions and the system that enforces them. But students who get into elite schools are precisely the ones who have best learned to work within the system, so it’s almost impossible for them to see outside it, to see that it’s even there. Long before they got to college, they turned themselves into world-class hoop-jumpers and teacher-pleasers, getting A’s in every class no matter how boring they found the teacher or how pointless the subject, racking up eight or 10 extracurricular activities no matter what else they wanted to do with their time.

http://theamericanscholar.org/the-disadvantages-of-an-elite-education/
 
Pops, when I was at UAPB, my department chair had friends who worked for the USDA in Agricultural Education and Research and in Economic Research. UAPB has a damn good Agricultural Program (undergrad and grad) and I have a slew of friends who now work for the USDA from recommendations from him and from being Ag majors. My microbiology and botany professor had good friends who worked for the FDA, and they have a facility in Jefferson, AR (right outside of Pine Bluff) where I have 3 good friends who work there and at the National Toxicology Center for Research. And my Anatomy and Physiology teacher knew folks at the Social Security Administration; this Que I know, who was a Nursing major, got his job there from a professor's recommendation and he's been there since about 1998.

Our HBCUs schools do know people and the channels are open to us. There may not be a lot of channels, but they are out there and they're open.

I agree every school has networks, channels, and relationships. My personal observation is however, those elite schools have more powerful networks and are pushing people quickly into positions of power and influence.

I will give you another example, Jon Favreau. Dude became a special assistant to the President and director of speechwriting at 27. Dude got walked into two Presidential campaigns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Favreau_(speechwriter)
 
I agree every school has networks, channels, and relationships. My personal observation is however, those elite schools have more powerful networks and are pushing people quickly into positions of power and influence.

I will give you another example, Jon Favreau. Dude became a special assistant to the President and director of speechwriting at 27. Dude got walked into two Presidential campaigns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Favreau_(speechwriter)




Again, classic case of someone else hooking him up with a job, regardless of the "market value" of his degree, let alone the academic value. By the way, what are the job qualifications of these jobs, Legislative Aide to US Senator and director of speech writing?

Maybe I'm the one confused; I thought you were emphasizing the market value of a degree from an "elite" school. What is the difference from the market value and a hook up job? Are they one in the same? And what was the major of Jon Favreau and your friend Mark? Did either of their majors pertain to what they do now? If not, they could have easily gone to UAPB, Hampton, Edward Waters and still had access to the same people who had the White House/President connections. Not what you know (but who you know).
 
Founder, in grad school, yes. In undergrad, no, no, and heck no. I love my professors at JSU but I don't remember too many former Presidential advisers, cabinet members, fortune 500 ceo's on faculty.

As for my current job, that was all individual hustle and George Mason. I took an Educational Policy class at George Mason and the professor was the former Assistant Secretary for Post-secondary Education in the Clinton Administration, his Assistant's wife is currently the Director of International Affairs at the Department of Education and she was a former Assistant Secretary for Postsecondary ED and Deputy Assistant Secretary for Policy. My current boss holds her old job. She connected us. One day, she came to speak to our class and I politely introduced myself, asked her for a meeting since we worked in the same building and she made an introduction.

Yes, it was God and my hustle that made the difference but without going to George Mason for grad, I don't think those same channels open up.

Brother the professors I just named were my undergrad Political Science professors.
 
I agree every school has networks, channels, and relationships. My personal observation is however, those elite schools have more powerful networks and are pushing people quickly into positions of power and influence.

I will give you another example, Jon Favreau. Dude became a special assistant to the President and director of speechwriting at 27. Dude got walked into two Presidential campaigns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Favreau_(speechwriter)

Bro. it seems like you have made up your mind....so I will agree to disagree. Ivy League = Connections....hell give me a HBCU grad or non-Ivy league grad to work in my foundation any day.
 
Again, classic case of someone else hooking him up with a job, regardless of the "market value" of his degree, let alone the academic value. By the way, what are the job qualifications of these jobs, Legislative Aide to US Senator and director of speech writing?

Maybe I'm the one confused; I thought you were emphasizing the market value of a degree from an "elite" school. What is the difference from the market value and a hook up job? Are they one in the same? And what was the major of Jon Favreau and your friend Mark? Did either of their majors pertain to what they do now? If not, they could have easily gone to UAPB, Hampton, Edward Waters and still had access to the same people who had the White House/President connections. Not what you know (but who you know).

Mark was a political science major, Jon was something with drama/playwriting and he was valedictorian at Holy Cross. Lioness, market value includes hook-ups. Market Value simply measures how valuable is your degree (and all it entails) on the free market. What type of doors will it open up for you. Who can your professor call and say you have his stamp of approval and no, I don't think Mark gets that phonecall made to the white house from his professor from too many schools. Maybe a few more, not a lot.

Speaking of Holy Cross,

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_11/b4025079.htm

They are two of the most important men in American law: Clarence Thomas, arguably the most controversial member of the U.S. Supreme Court; and Theodore V. Wells Jr., the star litigator who is currently representing I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, on charges of lying in the Valerie Plamecia leak investigation. Thomas is a Republican; Wells, a lifelong Democrat. Both are African American, but Thomas famously condemns affirmative action while Wells vigorously supports it in his capacity as co-chair of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund Board of Directors.


What binds them together is the experience they shared as students at the College of the Holy Cross and, in particular, the influence of the man who brought them there: the Reverend John E. Brooks. The men's bond with the Boston-born priest, now 83 and president emeritus, began almost four decades ago and remains strong to this day. "I love Father Brooks," says Thomas. "He's a great man." While Thomas "never liked school," the affection he feels for Brooks is so strong that he was willing to break a long-standing silence in the media to talk about him and the impact of that formative experience on his life. "Father Brooks realized we needed to be nurtured; that we were going to have unique problems," Thomas recalls.

The story of Brooks is important--and overlooked. A former academic dean who became president of the college in 1970, Brooks was by turns recruiter, mentor, negotiator, and friend to the 28 African American men who ventured to the Jesuit college in the largely white, industrial city of Worcester, Mass., during the racially tense fall of 1968. Brooks helped shape an exceptional group of overachievers. Along with Thomas and Wells, who was recently named 2006 Lawyer of the Year by the National Law Journal, this group includes Pulitzer Prize-winning author Edward P. Jones; investment banker Stanley E. Grayson, a former New York City Deputy Mayor who broke the color bar on Wall Street; and Eddie J. Jenkins, a Miami Dolphins running back during the team's 1972 perfect season who now chairs the Massachusetts Alcoholic Beverages Control Commission. "I came to see Father Brooks as one of the greatest ambassadors of justice I've ever known," says Jenkins.
 
Bro. it seems like you have made up your mind....so I will agree to disagree. Ivy League = Connections....hell give me a HBCU grad or non-Ivy league grad to work in my foundation any day.

Sorry bro, working at your foundation does not equal working for a Presidential administration or major law firm.
 
Name one place a Ivy league degree is top market outside of the Political area? A medical degree from Emory will get you hired first any day. GT engineering over Ivy leagues any day. Vanderbilt MBA at the top any day.
This lol. Let's just keep it real, for the most part a Harvard, Princeton, Yale degree is going to trump damn near any other one anywhere in the US except MAYBE a "hook up" type job.
 
Name one place a Ivy league degree is top market outside of the Political area? A medical degree from Emory will get you hired first any day. GT engineering over Ivy leagues any day. Vanderbilt MBA at the top any day.

Cee,
A Vanderbilt MBA will not touch Wharton. 150k average starting salary for grads.
 
Cee,
A Vanderbilt MBA will not touch Wharton. 150k average starting salary for grads.

Pops every thing in life is regional man. I know a chick graduated from Vandy making 250K. When you do the mathematics on the cost, tuition, books and room and board, it all equals the same. Take doctors for instance. Okay Doctors make a grip, but with all the med school bills, insurance and medical associations they have to pay, I would rather be a Engineer with just a BS killing them with six figures.
 
Cee,
A Vanderbilt MBA will not touch Wharton. 150k average starting salary for grads.

The first year cost is not worth it. Tuition, fees, and living expenses for first-year students are $89,200 Man if you finance that in a loan then add the second year you are looking at 200K with a interest rate of 8.5%. Heck nall I will pass. You will pay darn near 400-500k for a degree. :shame: Pops you gotta realize I am a engineer, every thing in life to me comes down to cost, schedule and budget. :lol:
 
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Sorry bro, working at your foundation does not equal working for a Presidential administration or major law firm.

You're missing the point. When you are working for yourself....my business is worth more to me than who works at the White House.
 
Cee,
A Vanderbilt MBA will not touch Wharton. 150k average starting salary for grads.

So how does it stand against Sam Walton College of Business at Arkansas which is funded by Wal-Mart? I know two people who earned PhDs from there who teach at Ivy Leagues. LOL....

So in theory....non-Ivy Leaguers teaching at an Ivy League school...:emlaugh:
 
The first year cost is not worth it. Tuition, fees, and living expenses for first-year students are $89,200 Man if you finance that in a loan then add the second year you are looking at 200K with a interest rate of 8.5%. Heck nall I will pass. You will pay darn near 400-500k for a degree. :shame: Pops you gotta realize I am a engineer, every thing in life to me comes down to cost, schedule and budget. :lol:

:emlaugh:

So that $150K job....and you have a $500k school debt...plus a mortgage or rent....ummmm....you have an Ivy League education but otherwise broke. I would much rather the basic education with a $100k debt and $80k job.
 
So how does it stand against Sam Walton College of Business at Arkansas which is funded by Wal-Mart? I know two people who earned PhDs from there who teach at Ivy Leagues. LOL....

So in theory....non-Ivy Leaguers teaching at an Ivy League school...:emlaugh:

Tenured professors don't really make a lot of money in my personal opinion. That is a good retirement job.
 
:emlaugh:

So that $150K job....and you have a $500k school debt...plus a mortgage or rent....ummmm....you have an Ivy League education but otherwise broke. I would much rather the basic education with a $100k debt and $80k job.

$150k entry level. Still, one could it suck up for three years, pay all of their loans and live good after that.

I know some peeps who came out of law school with 180k in loans. They were working 60-70 hour workweeks for a few years and paid them off. Now, these cats are 30-32 and living nice. I can respect the hustle.
 
Pops you are going to justify an Ivy League education so like I said before...I agree to disagree....

Not in every case. I think paying 50k a year in tuition to be a schoolteacher is dumb. However, I am just speaking on what I have seen in the gov/policy sector. Them mofo's are coming in and going straight to the top.
 
$150k entry level. Still, one could it suck up for three years, pay all of their loans and live good after that.

I know some peeps who came out of law school with 180k in loans. They were working 60-70 hour workweeks for a few years and paid them off. Now, these cats are 30-32 and living nice. I can respect the hustle.



You can work all the extra hours you want; that just allows Uncle Sam to tax you more. And don't forget the dependent factor; I'm guessing these 30-32 cats don't have children, which pushes up the taxes higher. So they may make 150K, but they're definitely not bringing that home. So, you factor in that, plus mortgage, car (which they probably have some high, luxury vehicle), car insurance, clothing (again, probably custom-made, tailor made), jewelry (to go along with the fancy job, house, car, etc), food, entertainment.......and student loan payments from undergraduate AND graduate school (which most are income-based), you looking at a person who brings home about 100K and has about 240-300K in debt.
 
Not in every case. I think paying 50k a year in tuition to be a schoolteacher is dumb. However, I am just speaking on what I have seen in the gov/policy sector. Them mofo's are coming in and going straight to the top.


Not really, since a lot of teaching jobs have/offer loan-forgiveness programs. My cousin, who is a doctor, worked in rural, one-horse town for 3 years just to get half of her student loans "forgiven".
 
Pops every thing in life is regional man. I know a chick graduated from Vandy making 250K. When you do the mathematics on the cost, tuition, books and room and board, it all equals the same. Take doctors for instance. Okay Doctors make a grip, but with all the med school bills, insurance and medical associations they have to pay, I would rather be a Engineer with just a BS killing them with six figures.


TRUTH! My cousin is a doctor and yes, she has to pay yearly for her licensure, malpractice insurance, still paying off some med school loans, pay for the monthly rent on the building she has her practice......
 
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