God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.........

[ROYAL BLUE]

......are all one "Entity". They are not separate entities, although most have been taught they are separate. I always wondered if God and Christ were 2 different entities, however, after searching and comprehending the scriptures, I learned that God and Christ are the same entity. I will post the proof below. With that being said, I now know why Christ stated "they know not what they do."

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

Jesus Christ is God Incarnate


"...they shall call his name EMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US."
--MATTHEW 1:23

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/jesusgd2.htm

 

[Tiger1]

......are all one "Entity". They are not separate entities, although most have been taught they are separate. I always wondered if God and Christ were 2 different entities, however, after searching and comprehending the scriptures, I learned that God and Christ are the same entity. I will post the proof below. With that being said, I now know why Christ stated "they know not what they do."

Trinity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. They are one. In fact, they are so much one that they can’t operate independent of each other. They are a team. Jesus didn’t do any miracles or start His public ministry until after He had been anointed with the Holy Spirit.

“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.” John 16:7

“not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit, saith the LORD of hosts” (Zech. 4:6).

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.”

God the Father conceived it. Jesus spoke it. And the Holy Spirit was the power that performed it. Everything God did in His creation was accomplished through the power of the Holy Spirit. When God the Father was ready to bring Jesus into the earth, He took the spoken Word (Jesus), the Holy Spirit brooded over Mary (a virgin), and she conceived Jesus’ physical body.

http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/holy_spirit

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

Trinity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. They are one.

Yes, they are one entity. After I prayed about it, and searched the scriptures for truth, God allowed me to comprehend this truth in a very simplistic way. I myself go by different titles, but I too am one entity. For example, I'm a Father to my kids, a husband to my wife, and a son to my parents. Each title carries a different responsibility, however, all offices are operated by the same entity........myself.

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

I think Christ simplified this for everyone in the following verses, but for some reason, many still believe the three are separate entities, but operate as one.

John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

In other words, Phillip, as long as I've been with you, you have not recognized that God is in front of you. If that be the case Phillip, then let me explain it to you in simple terms, therefore, you will have nothing to figure out on your own. You've heard it from mine lips. Phillip, if a man has seen Jesus the Son, then that same man has seen God the Father.......that simple. Does this confuse you?

 

[dacontinent]

I think Christ simplified this for everyone in the following verses, but for some reason, many still believe the three are separate entities, but operate as one.

John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

In other words, Phillip, as long as I've been with you, you have not recognized that God is in front of you. If that be the case Phillip, then let me explain it to you in simple terms, therefore, you will have nothing to figure out on your own. You've heard it from mine lips. Phillip, if a man has seen Jesus the Son, then that same man has seen God the Father.......that simple. Does this confuse you?

RB,

I love you. But, if you are going that route, then you are going to also have to walk through
Luke 3:21-22 KJV
21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son ; in thee I am well pleased.

and

Luke 9:33-36 KJV


33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.
34 While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.
35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son : hear him.
36 And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.

and

Matt 16:27 KJV

27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

and

John 5:16-19 KJV

16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.


ad infinitum.

Your conception just doesn't hold up based on the whole of the Scriptures.

 

[Tiger1]

Yes, they are one entity. After I prayed about it, and searched the scriptures for truth, God allowed me to comprehend this truth in a very simplistic way. I myself go by different titles, but I too am one entity. For example, I'm a Father to my kids, a husband to my wife, and a son to my parents. Each title carries a different responsibility, however, all offices are operated by the same entity........myself.

Just had a flashback from some of my apostolic brethren.

Carry On!!!

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

RB,

I love you. But, if you are going that route, then you are going to also have to walk through
Luke 3:21-22 KJV
21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son ; in thee I am well pleased.

I love you too Dac. I looked at all of those before I made a final decision, and I must say, Christ could not have explained it to Phillip any more simple. Is Christ a liar? Look at the following. Do we have one savior, or are there 2? Surely, God is not the author of confusion, therefore, if we believe that God is one entity operating in 3 roles, then it all makes sense, and all scriptures agree there is only one Savior. Again, I myself am one person, that has many titles that serve my family......father, son, husband.


God is the only Saviour.

"I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour." Isaiah 43:11

To the only wise God our Saviour... Jude 1:12

God our Saviour. Titus 2:10

...we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour. I Timothy 4:10

God my Saviour. Luke 1:47

Jesus is the only Saviour.

...the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. 1 John 4:14

...our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. II Peter 3:18

...God and our Saviour Jesus Christ. II Peter 1:1

...the Christ, the Saviour of the world. John 4:42

...the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. Titus 1:4

a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. Luke 2:11

Neither is there salvation in any other (than Jesus): for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
--Acts 4:12

...salvation... is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
--2 Timothy 2:10

...captain of their salvation [Jesus] perfect through sufferings.
-- Heb 2:10

[Jesus]...author of eternal salvation...
-- Heb 5:9 http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/jesusgd2.htm

 

[Dr H..]

RB

Where have you been? I thought ole boy from Gravett, Ark - called you and told you to stop posting on the SWAC Board.


Are you saying there are not three "individuals" in the Godhead

 

[dacontinent]

I love you too Dac. I looked at all of those before I made a final decision, and I must say, Christ could not have explained it to Phillip any more simple. Is Christ a liar? Look at the following. Do we have one savior, or are there 2? Surely, God is not the author of confusion, therefore, if we believe that God is one entity operating in 3 roles, then it all makes sense, and all scriptures agree there is only one Savior. Again, I myself am one person, that has many titles that serve my family......father, son, husband.
...

Apples and oranges. You are a father, but not your own father. You are a son, but not your own son. You are a husband, but not your own husband.

God is not schizophrenic. Jesus did not beget Himself [John 3:16], nor practice ventriloquism from the cloud at His baptism or transfiguration, nor pray to Himself in Gethsemane [John 17] or elsewhere.

Did Jesus sit at His own right hand until His enemies were made His footstool [Heb 1:13]? In explaining what happened in the outpouring at Pentecost, Peter explained God made Jesus both Lord and Christ, not that Jesus did it Himself; that God sent the outpouring of the Holy Ghost while Jesus remains at God's right hand. Stephen later [Acts 7] sees Jesus standing on the right side of God. Did he see two persons or one? Paul places Him beside the Father in Romans 8 and 1 Peter 3 does also.

The testimony of the witnesses differs from what I understand you to have concluded.

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

RB

Where have you been? I thought ole boy from Gravett, Ark - called you and told you to stop posting on the SWAC Board.


Are you saying there are not three "individuals" in the Godhead

LMAO @ DH.

Well, I've recently made some tough family decisions, and decided to step out on faith to reach my destination. Pray for me because I will need all the prayer I can get. No, Murray has not ordered me to stop posting on the board.

Yes, I'm saying God is all three in one entity, per previous scriptures that are posted.

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

Apples and oranges. You are a father, but not your own father. You are a son, but not your own son. You are a husband, but not your own husband.

God is not schizophrenic. Jesus did not beget Himself [John 3:16], nor practice ventriloquism from the cloud at His baptism or transfiguration, nor pray to Himself in Gethsemane [John 17] or elsewhere.

Did Jesus sit at His own right hand until His enemies were made His footstool [Heb 1:13]? In explaining what happened in the outpouring at Pentecost, Peter explained God made Jesus both Lord and Christ, not that Jesus did it Himself; that God sent the outpouring of the Holy Ghost while Jesus remains at God's right hand. Stephen later [Acts 7] sees Jesus standing on the right side of God. Did he see two persons or one? Paul places Him beside the Father in Romans 8 and 1 Peter 3 does also.

The testimony of the witnesses differs from what I understand you to have concluded.

Why couldn't God be all three in one? MATTHEW 1:23 "...they shall call his name EMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US."

Dac, what's you response to the folliwing verses? Is not Christ the living God(I Timothy 4:10)?

God is the only Saviour.

"I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour." Isaiah 43:11

To the only wise God our Saviour... Jude 1:12

God our Saviour. Titus 2:10

...we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour. I Timothy 4:10

God my Saviour. Luke 1:47

 

[dacontinent]

Why couldn't God be all three in one? MATTHEW 1:23 "...they shall call his name EMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US."
Dac, what's you response to the folliwing verses? Is not Christ the living God(I Timothy 4:10)?

God is the only Saviour.

"I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour." Isaiah 43:11

To the only wise God our Saviour... Jude 1:12

God our Saviour. Titus 2:10

...we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour. I Timothy 4:10

God my Saviour. Luke 1:47

Taking the whole counsel of Scripture, we have elements like

• Elohyim being the name used for God in the creation as a plural noun.
• John 1:1-3 tells us that the Word (Jesus) was WITH God and He IS God.

making it pretty obvious.

Your collection of verses supports this.

• 1 Tim 4:10 & Jude 12 -> John 1:1 as they all reference God as Theos and savior as the function He is serving.
• Isaiah 43:11-12 shows us God as Yahweh and El in His function as savior.
• Luke 1:47 is Mary's magnifying of God, including the fact that she embraces Him as savior.

Savior is a function and a role, not unlike the earlier example that you gave regarding yourself (father, son, husband, etc.). It is the same as is ascribed to God with the adjectives that accompany Yahweh:

• Tsidkenu - Righteousness
• M’Kaddesh - Sanctifier
• Shalom - Peace
• Shammah - There
• Rapha - Healer
• Jireh - Provider
• Nissi - Banner
• Rohi - Shepherd

When you understand the Elohyim, El Shaddai, Adonai, El Elyon, and Yahweh are all the same but presented in different ways, the picture is quite clear.

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

Taking the whole counsel of Scripture, we have elements like

• Elohyim being the name used for God in the creation as a plural noun.
• John 1:1-3 tells us that the Word (Jesus) was WITH God and He IS God.

making it pretty obvious.

Your collection of verses supports this.

• 1 Tim 4:10 & Jude 12 -> John 1:1 as they all reference God as Theos and savior as the function He is serving.
• Isaiah 43:11-12 shows us God as Yahweh and El in His function as savior.
• Luke 1:47 is Mary's magnifying of God, including the fact that she embraces Him as savior.

Savior is a function and a role, not unlike the earlier example that you gave regarding yourself (father, son, husband, etc.). It is the same as is ascribed to God with the adjectives that accompany Yahweh:

• Tsidkenu - Righteousness
• M’Kaddesh - Sanctifier
• Shalom - Peace
• Shammah - There
• Rapha - Healer
• Jireh - Provider
• Nissi - Banner
• Rohi - Shepherd

When you understand the Elohyim, El Shaddai, Adonai, El Elyon, and Yahweh are all the same but presented in different ways, the picture is quite clear.

.....which is why I stated that God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit are one entity. The example I used for myself was to show that it's natural for one person to be a father, a son, and a husband. Are we not the bride of Christ? In other words, God is our Father, the Son, and our Husband, depending on the situation. He's our everything.

 

[dacontinent]

.....which is why I stated that God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit are one entity. The example I used for myself was to show that it's natural for one person to be a father, a son, and a husband. Are we not the bride of Christ? In other words, God is our Father, the Son, and our Husband, depending on the situation. He's our everything.

He most certainly is our everything.

A corporation (General Motors) is one entity. Its divisions (Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac, GMC, Corvette, Opel, Hummer, Holden) are also entities. However, none of them are the same and are in competition with each other for consumers' money.

The Father is never Messiah (Christ) nor Holy Ghost; He is always Father. The Messiah (Christ) is never the Father nor Holy Ghost. The Holy Spirit is never Father nor Christ. They are an entity (Elohyim/El Shaddai/El Elyon/Adonai/Yahweh), commonly referred to in modern times as the Godhead. They are never in competition with each other and all want the same thing. They are also separate entities, never serving in the others function. This is where you and I differ.

How God (Elohyim/El Shaddai/El Elyon/Adonai/Yahweh) relates to us and how Father, Son, and Holy Spirt relate to each other are NOT the same. You will not be your wife's father or son nor your child's husband or son. You will simply be RB.

 

[Tiger1]

He most certainly is our everything.

A corporation (General Motors) is one entity. Its divisions (Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac, GMC, Corvette, Opel, Hummer, Holden) are also entities. However, none of them are the same and are in competition with each other for consumers' money.

The Father is never Messiah (Christ) nor Holy Ghost; He is always Father. The Messiah (Christ) is never the Father nor Holy Ghost. The Holy Spirit is never Father nor Christ. They are an entity (Elohyim/El Shaddai/El Elyon/Adonai/Yahweh), commonly referred to in modern times as the Godhead. They are never in competition with each other and all want the same thing. They are also separate entities, never serving in the others function. This is where you and I differ.

How God (Elohyim/El Shaddai/El Elyon/Adonai/Yahweh) relates to us and how Father, Son, and Holy Spirt relate to each other are NOT the same. You will not be your wife's father or son nor your child's husband or son. You will simply be RB.

Excellent explanation and analogy!!! :clap:

 

[Bane]

1Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals.
2And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, "Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?" 3But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it.
4I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside.
5Then one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals."
6Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits[a] of God sent out into all the earth.
7He came and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne.
8And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
9And they sang a new song: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation.
10You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth."
11Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders.
12In a loud voice they sang: "Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!"
13Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!" 14The four living creatures said, "Amen," and the elders fell down and worshiped.

So RB, Did GOD take the book from himself? Who were the creatures praising, only GOD or GOD and the Lamb.

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

He most certainly is our everything.

A corporation (General Motors) is one entity. Its divisions (Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac, GMC, Corvette, Opel, Hummer, Holden) are also entities. However, none of them are the same and are in competition with each other for consumers' money.

The Father is never Messiah (Christ) nor Holy Ghost; He is always Father. The Messiah (Christ) is never the Father nor Holy Ghost. The Holy Spirit is never Father nor Christ. They are an entity (Elohyim/El Shaddai/El Elyon/Adonai/Yahweh), commonly referred to in modern times as the Godhead. They are never in competition with each other and all want the same thing. They are also separate entities, never serving in the others function. This is where you and I differ.

How God (Elohyim/El Shaddai/El Elyon/Adonai/Yahweh) relates to us and how Father, Son, and Holy Spirt relate to each other are NOT the same. You will not be your wife's father or son nor your child's husband or son. You will simply be RB.

I think you're confusing my statement. My statement is that God and Jesus are the same being. God is not a separate being from Christ. In other words, if both appeared together, there wouldn't be 2 beings standing beside each other. This is why Christ stated "if you've seen the Son, you've seen the Father." IMO, this statement need no interpretation, because it was plain and simple. Christ was simply stating that He and God are the same being. I think that most can't accept the fact, that God is all in one. I understand the GMC example you gave, but what about the following example. A VCR, DVD player, and television perform 3 separate roles, but it doesn't take 3 separate entities to contol all 3. Why? The remote is "universal and multi-function". IMO, God can do it all, and doesn't need a separate entity to offer salvation; He simply steps into the office of Savior. This is why He stated that we shall call Christ "EMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US."

Remember, the Word is God, and became flesh in the office of Christ.

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

So RB, Did GOD take the book from himself? Who were the creatures praising, only GOD or GOD and the Lamb.

Revelation 5:7 "And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him sat upon the throne."

The words "right hand" always represent power.

"He came and took the book", means "He became the Word of God"

Word References:

"came" - 2064 erchomai (er'-khom-ahee); middle voice of a primary verb (used only in the present and imperfect tenses, the others being supplied by a kindred [middle voice] eleuthomai (el-yoo'-thom-ahee); or [active] eltho (el'-tho); which do not otherwise occur); to come or go (in a great variety of applications, literally and figuratively):
KJV-- accompany, appear, bring, come, enter, fall out, go, grow, X light, X next, pass, resort, be set.

"took" - 2983 lambano (lam-ban'-o); a prolonged form of a primary verb, which is use only as an alternate in certain tenses; to take (in very many applications, literally and figuratively [properly objective or active, to get hold of; whereas 1209 is rather subjective or passive, to have offered to one; while 138 is more violent, to seize or remove]):
KJV-- accept, + be amazed, assay, attain, bring, X when I call, catch, come on (X unto), + forget, have, hold, obtain, receive (X after), take (away, up).

"book" - 975 biblion (bib-lee'-on); a diminutive of 976; a roll: KJV-- bill, book, scroll, writing.

"right" - 1188 dexios (dex-ee-os'); from 1209; the right side or (feminine) hand (as that which usually takes): KJV-- right (hand, side). http://www.theseason.org/revelation/revelation5.htm

 

[dacontinent]

I think you're confusing my statement. My statement is that God and Jesus are the same being. God is not a separate being from Christ. In other words, if both appeared together, there wouldn't be 2 beings standing beside each other. This is why Christ stated "if you've seen the Son, you've seen the Father." IMO, this statement need no interpretation, because it was plain and simple. Christ was simply stating that He and God are the same being. I think that most can't accept the fact, that God is all in one. I understand the GMC example you gave, but what about the following example. A VCR, DVD player, and television perform 3 separate roles, but it doesn't take 3 separate entities to contol all 3. Why? The remote is "universal and multi-function". IMO, God can do it all, and doesn't need a separate entity to offer salvation; He simply steps into the office of Savior. This is why He stated that we shall call Christ "EMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US."

Remember, the Word is God, and became flesh in the office of Christ.

Nope. I did not confuse the statement. I understood from the beginning what you were stating. And, yes, when you see the Father and the Son, you will see 2 beings side by side. Stephen already did.

I understand your position. I am not going to fight about this. I am going to give you a few references below and leave you with one question.

Matt 16:17 KJV
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

John 16:23-30 KJV
23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you , Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you . 24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. 25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. 26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you , that I will pray the Father for you : 27 For the Father himself loveth you , because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. 28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. 29 His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb. 30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

John 17:1-3 KJV
1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

And you could go on with almost all of Chapter 17.

These are but a few pivotal references that Jesus makes to the Father. Now the question for you to ponder: Do you recall anywhere in the Scriptures where Jesus says at any time during his Earthly existence that He and the Father are in the same place? Jesus' disciples seemed to get it in John 16.

Thanks for your consideration.

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

Nope. I did not confuse the statement. I understood from the beginning what you were stating. And, yes, when you see the Father and the Son, you will see 2 beings side by side. Stephen already did.

I understand your position. I am not going to fight about this. I am going to give you a few references below and leave you with one question.

Matt 16:17 KJV
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

John 16:23-30 KJV
23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you , Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you . 24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. 25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. 26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you , that I will pray the Father for you : 27 For the Father himself loveth you , because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. 28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. 29 His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb. 30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

John 17:1-3 KJV
1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

And you could go on with almost all of Chapter 17.

These are but a few pivotal references that Jesus makes to the Father. Now the question for you to ponder: Do you recall anywhere in the Scriptures where Jesus says at any time during his Earthly existence that He and the Father are in the same place? Jesus' disciples seemed to get it in John 16.

Thanks for your consideration.

Dac, you will never see me get upset if I disagree.

Yes, you're confusing my statement. I never stated both offices are in the same place on earth.....never. I stated.........the office of God, and Christ are separate, however both offices are controlled by one being. Having said that, Christ is the exact physical image of God, and God the same as Christ. God left the office of God in heaven, and stepped into the office of Christ on earth. The word became flesh means that God became Christ. The office of God was in heaven, and rightfully so. God did not become flesh to rule as God. He became flesh to fulfil the role as Savior. IMO, we serve one God who holds multiple offices and titles. Many believe that one being "can't" hold the office of God, Christ, and Holy Spirit, but I leave you with a question to ponder in the following scripture. Jeremiah 32:27 Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?

You're welcome Dac.

 

[illinijag]

Disclaimer: This message is only to those who believe in the one and only true God, the God who provided the Saviour (Jesus Christ).

John 1:1-5. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

John 1:14. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

All are one, yet have separate functions to achieve a single Goal. To truly understand this is beyond human rationale, such is as trying to understand the origin of the blowing wind. Jesus did an excellent job explaining this via a conversation with Nicodemus. I think this can also apply to this discussion:

John 3:12. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

I don’t truly understand the trinity; but I do know that God has given me that which He requires of me to be Just and Acceptable before Him. He requires perfection, which I have not, so He provided me a redeemer (Jesus) to pay my sin debt and left me the Holy Spirit as a token and to keep me under sanctification until I am glorified with Him. God even gave me the Faith to believe…

:lecture:What I have learned is that we should never let what we don’t understand impede what we do understand.

• I know that we need Christ to make us acceptable to God
  [*]God gave of Himself (Christ) for Us
  [*]The Holy Spirit is the power that performs All Godly acts and is the spirit of God and Christ
  [*]I know that in the End All will be turned over to God

1 Corinthians 15:24-28. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

The beauty of this thing is that God has devised a plan to reconcile us back to HIM.:clap:

Good Day and God Bless

 

[dacontinent]

Dac, you will never see me get upset if I disagree.

Yes, you're confusing my statement. I never stated both offices are in the same place on earth.....never. I stated.........the office of God, and Christ are separate, however both offices are controlled by one being. Having said that, Christ is the exact physical image of God, and God the same as Christ. God left the office of God in heaven, and stepped into the office of Christ on earth. The word became flesh means that God became Christ. The office of God was in heaven, and rightfully so. God did not become flesh to rule as God. He became flesh to fulfil the role as Savior. IMO, we serve one God who holds multiple offices and titles. Many believe that one being "can't" hold the office of God, Christ, and Holy Spirit, but I leave you with a question to ponder in the following scripture. Jeremiah 32:27 Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?

You're welcome Dac.

There is nothing too hard for God! However, not everything that is possible is true.

What you have here suggests that Christ prayed to no One; just an office. That perpetrates prayer as farcical. Jesus taught His disciples to pray to His Father, not an office.

You said earlier that "if both [Father and Son] appeared together, there wouldn't be 2 beings standing beside each other", but the testimony of Stephen refutes that exactly. Peter and John, two-thirds of Jesus' inner circle, both herald the distinction between Christ and the Father. Perhaps you know something they didn't.
.You also did not address what Stephen saw.

 

[Dr H..]

if you've seen the Son, you've seen the Father."

I am glad that you opinion, because that’s not what Jesus meant. RB, [not for argument] you need to read the context of the scriptures.

Here it is

Philip asked for a clear revelation of the Father that would satisfy the Eleven. Phillip, wanted Jesus to give them a theophany [appearance of God] (Exod. 24:9-10; Isa. 6:1). They desired to see God as He really is ( Exod. 33:18). Jesus in His incarnation made that revelation of the Father more clearly, fully (1:14, 18; 12:45; Heb. 1:1-2).

14:9 [Here is the problem] Philip and the other disciples had not yet completely realized who Jesus was. They did not understand what John revealed

14:10 Jesus repeated again that He and the Father were one ( 5:19; 8:28; 10:30, 38; 12:49).

Jesus is speaking of a mutual abiding term to express this [ Father and Son] unity without destroying the individual identities of the Father and the Son. Jesus did not just represent God to humankind as an ambassador would. He did everything the Father gave Him to do, and He did everything the Father did (5:19).

14:11 Jesus cited another proof of His union with the Father beside His words, namely, His works (Gr. erga). Specifically He meant His miracles (5:36; 10:25, 37-38; 11:47; 12:37; 20:30-31).

What you have here suggests that Christ prayed to no One; just an office.

Wow...

RB

I stated.........the office of God, and Christ are separate, however both offices are controlled by one being.

Please explain "office"

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

There is nothing too hard for God! However, not everything that is possible is true.

What you have here suggests that Christ prayed to no One; just an office. That perpetrates prayer as farcical. Jesus taught His disciples to pray to His Father, not an office.

You said earlier that "if both [Father and Son] appeared together, there wouldn't be 2 beings standing beside each other", but the testimony of Stephen refutes that exactly. Peter and John, two-thirds of Jesus' inner circle, both herald the distinction between Christ and the Father. Perhaps you know something they didn't.
.You also did not address what Stephen saw.

No, that is not what I'm suggesting, but be it as it may. I will leave it as it is. We will soon find out if all three are in one entity.......the Godhead. I have nothing more to add, but to share my opinion on the subject.