Do you think SU's band is REALLY gonna be as good as everyone is hyping them up to b

[ChicagoJag]

Re: Do you think SU's band is REALLY gonna be as good as everyone is hyping them up

... The smart thing to do is to not say anthing and just let the horns do the talking ...

+1

As a very wise man once said, "Real bad boys move in silence"

 

[SaxEbert]

Re: Do you think SU's band is REALLY gonna be as good as everyone is hyping them up

Which is SAD, because even with out change others bands should be restructuring their programs because they were far behind what SU was doing....:tup:

Could you explain exactly what were they(SU) doing?

 

[SUtrp96]

Re: Do you think SU's band is REALLY gonna be as good as everyone is hyping them up

Could you explain exactly what were they(SU) doing?

Out MARCHING every band, Having the MOST consistant SOLID program year in year out... Having what many agree are the best arrangers in the SWAC..
Everything a BAND should do SU was doing, and many other wasn't. ..:tup:

 

[dacontinent]

Re: Do you think SU's band is REALLY gonna be as good as everyone is hyping them up

And, that is? More Woodwinds?

Just curious as to what you thought was going to happen when DOC left.

More woodwinds would be a start. However, if the arrangements don't showcase them, then we are just talking about having a thicker band.

I HOPED (since I have absolutely no idea what to think; I don't know the people in the SU program) that jukebox would add more woodwinds and show more diversity. Everyone knows the Jukebox can produce plenty of volume with its brass, but I have NEVER heard the work of their woodwind section. We know that they produce excellent woodwind players, but we never get to hear them as a section because the philosophy heretofore has been brassy.

I am all for paying homage to tradition and what a band - any band - does well. My hope was that SU would present a more complete package than it has in the past: the same thing that I look for in EVERY band.

Doing well what you have always done is not impressive; that is simply a matter of repetition. Doing well at what you have never or rarely done is.

 

[jag4life]

Re: Do you think SU's band is REALLY gonna be as good as everyone is hyping them up

Doing well what you have always done is not impressive; that is simply a matter of repetition. Doing well at what you have never or rarely done is.

Changing your style is traditionless.

 

[SUtrp96]

Re: Do you think SU's band is REALLY gonna be as good as everyone is hyping them up

More woodwinds would be a start. However, if the arrangements don't showcase them, then we are just talking about having a thicker band.

I HOPED (since I have absolutely no idea what to think; I don't know the people in the SU program) that jukebox would add more woodwinds and show more diversity. Everyone knows the Jukebox can produce plenty of volume with its brass, but I have NEVER heard the work of their woodwind section. We know that they produce excellent woodwind players, but we never get to hear them as a section because the philosophy heretofore has been brassy.

I am all for paying homage to tradition and what a band - any band - does well. My hope was that SU would present a more complete package than it has in the past: the same thing that I look for in EVERY band.

Doing well what you have always done is not impressive; that is simply a matter of repetition. Doing well at what you have never or rarely done is.

NOt disrespect, but you r are hoping SOME bands change what they do to satisfy what YOU think a band should sound like...

It never crossed your mind in all them years SU had a brass heavy band was by design. That is the style DOC wanted, he trusted whom ever he pass the job down to, to atleast keep the STYLE the entire JUKEBOX family know and love. We have nothing against woodwinds, it's just not our style. Once some people can RESPECT that, then and only then will you truely understand SU. You can't understand us, if you thinking and hoping SU changes their sound. Honestly you asking us folk that was apart of that band to feel SU NEEDS to change, when we don't. They have too many other bands that don't know who they are and come out every year with a different sounding band (searching for their identity) SU knows and LOVE who we are, I would be pissed and hurt if SU changed their sound...:tup:

 

[BLAQUE PRINCE]

Re: Do you think SU's band is REALLY gonna be as good as everyone is hyping them up

Changing your style is traditionless.

I wouldn't say that neccesarily means a style change. Theres a line between style and content. Now regarding the woodwinds thats a style change.

 

[Terrell_SU]

Re: Do you think SU's band is REALLY gonna be as good as everyone is hyping them up

My hope was that SU would present a more complete package than it has in the past

:shame:

when has southern EVER came with an "incomplete" package?

 

[JR]

Re: Do you think SU's band is REALLY gonna be as good as everyone is hyping them up

NOt disrespect, but you r are hoping SOME bands change what they do to satisfy what YOU think a band should sound like...

It never crossed your mind in all them years SU had a brass heavy band was by design. That is the style DOC wanted, he trusted whom ever he pass the job down to, to atleast keep the STYLE the entire JUKEBOX family know and love. We have nothing against woodwinds, it's just not our style. Once some people can RESPECT that, then and only then will you truely understand SU. You can't understand us, if you thinking and hoping SU changes their sound. Honestly you asking us folk that was apart of that band to feel SU NEEDS to change, when we don't. They have too many other bands that don't know who they are and come out every year with a different sounding band (searching for their identity) SU knows and LOVE who we are, I would be pissed and hurt if SU changed their sound...:tup:

Co-Sign. Good Post Jared. SU needs to keep our traditional sound. I would be totally disappointed if we changed it. Now I have no issues if we add a few more woodwinds especially saxophones. But not to the point they are equal numbers to the brass. I never want to see 20 clarinets, 20 piccolos...etc. In a 192 piece on field SU band I would love to see this instrumentation.. 4 piccolos, 8 Clarinets, 20 Alto Saxs, 8 tenor sax's, 16 Mello phones, 16 Baritones, 40 trumpets, 32 Trombones, 20 Tubas, 8 Cymbals, 8 snare, 8 tenor drums, 4 Bass Drums.

The funny thing is........outside of FAMU. Most HBCU bands, especially in the SWAC has cut down on their woodwinds to follow in the path that Doc laid out at SU. More and more I have seen bands increase their brass sections. I wonder why? Makes you say hmmmmmmmmm.

 

[Terrell_SU]

Re: Do you think SU's band is REALLY gonna be as good as everyone is hyping them up

The funny thing is........outside of FAMU. Most HBCU bands, especially in the SWAC has cut down on their woodwinds to follow in the path that Doc laid out at SU. More and more I have seen bands increase their brass sections. I wonder why? Makes you say hmmmmmmmmm.

they'll never admit it. they will claim "we've alwayz had this instrumentation".

 

[O'Bladerunner]

Re: Do you think SU's band is REALLY gonna be as good as everyone is hyping them up

More woodwinds would be a start. However, if the arrangements don't showcase them, then we are just talking about having a thicker band.

I HOPED (since I have absolutely no idea what to think; I don't know the people in the SU program) that jukebox would add more woodwinds and show more diversity. Everyone knows the Jukebox can produce plenty of volume with its brass, but I have NEVER heard the work of their woodwind section. We know that they produce excellent woodwind players, but we never get to hear them as a section because the philosophy heretofore has been brassy.

I am all for paying homage to tradition and what a band - any band - does well. My hope was that SU would present a more complete package than it has in the past: the same thing that I look for in EVERY band.

Doing well what you have always done is not impressive; that is simply a matter of repetition. Doing well at what you have never or rarely done is.

I can respect that. BUT.....

To me......it kinna sounds like (metaphorically speaking from what I got from your expectation)...you think SU flips a two-headed coin, every year, when deciding whether to keep it brassy or have more woodwinds that particular year....and, it always comes up on the Brass side "somehow".

If SU DOES add more woodwinds. It would only do justice to the STYLE and TRADITION to add more brass to cover the ratio of what SU's been puting out.

So, no...unless, Mr.J has a brain cramp....there will be no tremendous upgrade in woodwind numbers to even out the brass and woodwinds.

For what? If the arse-kick'n machine ain't broke...don't fix it. Instead, we're....." just put'n some 20's on it".....:lol:...(thanks, Mr.J)


SU writes for woodwinds. They don't just wonder around the band room making up music on a sheet of loose leaf paper. I garuantee you, if the woodwinds wouldn't play on a good number of songs....you'd know they're missing (ie..."I remember"...."Skin Im In" ...etc).



PS- How much "Diverse" should SU get? If you really look...the Jukebox covers a whole lot when it comes to the different kinds of music, anyway.

 

[dacontinent]

Re: Do you think SU's band is REALLY gonna be as good as everyone is hyping them up

NOt disrespect, but you r are hoping SOME bands change what they do to satisfy what YOU think a band should sound like...

No. I am not suggesting that ANY band abdicate what they do well. By all means KEEP YOUR SIGNATURE. I am suggesting that ALL bands need to stretch themselves and regularly do something that is out of character for them and do it exceptionally well. It keeps things from getting boring and predictable, AND it demostrates CREATIVITY and THE EDUCATION PROCESS extends to all aspects of the program.

It never crossed your mind in all them years SU had a brass heavy band was by design. That is the style DOC wanted, he trusted whom ever he pass the job down to, to atleast keep the STYLE the entire JUKEBOX family know and love. We have nothing against woodwinds, it's just not our style. Once some people can RESPECT that, then and only then will you truely understand SU. You can't understand us, if you thinking and hoping SU changes their sound. Honestly you asking us folk that was apart of that band to feel SU NEEDS to change, when we don't. They have too many other bands that don't know who they are and come out every year with a different sounding band (searching for their identity) SU knows and LOVE who we are, I would be pissed and hurt if SU changed their sound...:tup:

I have never been a part of the SU program. What little I know has been shared with me in on the internet and in person with people like you. To that extent, what I have gleaned is that the SU style that has been in place and developed over the last 40 years is almost completely attributable to Dr. Greggs. Hence it has been either exactly what he wanted and/or approved. My hope what that the new leadership would have a different signature that brings more woodwinds into play. That is all. Does SU NEED to change? Of course not. It's just my hope that it will. No disrespect intended. I hope the same thing for the Boom.

 

[dacontinent]

Re: Do you think SU's band is REALLY gonna be as good as everyone is hyping them up

I can respect that. BUT.....

To me......it kinna sounds like (metaphorically speaking from what I got from your expectation)...you think SU flips a two-headed coin, every year, when deciding whether to keep it brassy or have more woodwinds that particular year....and, it always comes up on the Brass side "somehow".

Actually, my thoughts were just the opposite: that SU tries to decide how to sound increasingly brassy.

If SU DOES add more woodwinds. It would only do justice to the STYLE and TRADITION to add more brass to cover the ratio of what SU's been puting out.

So, no...unless, Mr.J has a brain cramp....there will be no tremendous upgrade in woodwind numbers to even out the brass and woodwinds.
...
SU writes for woodwinds...

PS- How much "Diverse" should SU get? If you really look...the Jukebox covers a whole lot when it comes to the different kinds of music, anyway.

My biggest qualm with SU has always been the style of arranging. SU folks seem to love it and it is the signature of the Jukebox. That's what has made SU - well SU. And SU is FABULOUS AT WHAT IT DOES. Some have argued that my Boom and other bands have gone to a more brassy style to try to out SU the Jukebox. Regardless to whether that is the reason, it is a philosphical mistake. We all know that without changing the ratios there is no chance of being successful at that.

My real question about SU has always been whether the arranging dictates the ratios (i.e. are the ratios controlled for the sake of the arrangements) or the arranging is a result of the ratios. Just curious.

AND for the record, I want to see all of the bands be more diverse in their music, instrumentation, dance, choreography, show design - the whole gamut. I want to see our schools prepare our graduates to be able to go into any existing market and be able to hit the ground running with any program in existence.

 

[SUtrp96]

Re: Do you think SU's band is REALLY gonna be as good as everyone is hyping them up

Actually, my thoughts were just the opposite: that SU tries to decide how to sound increasingly brassy.


My biggest qualm with SU has always been the style of arranging. SU folks seem to love it and it is the signature of the Jukebox. That's what has made SU - well SU. And SU is FABULOUS AT WHAT IT DOES. Some have argued that my Boom and other bands have gone to a more brassy style to try to out SU the Jukebox. Regardless to whether that is the reason, it is a philosphical mistake. We all know that without changing the ratios there is no chance of being successful at that.

My real question about SU has always been whether the arranging dictates the ratios (i.e. are the ratios controlled for the sake of the arrangements) or the arranging is a result of the ratios. Just curious.

AND for the record, I want to see all of the bands be more diverse in their music, instrumentation, dance, choreography, show design - the whole gamut. I want to see our schools prepare our graduates to be able to go into any existing market and be able to hit the ground running with any program in existence.

I wouldn't say they arrange based off of the ratio.. But I guess Juke know our arrangers arrange based off of strenght within the band... That's why some old heads wouldn't care to hear certain songs for certain bands... because most songs arranged fits the edition's band it was written for like a glove. And if a certain band don't have the same strenghts or similar strenghts as that particular band, it won't give off the same effect....:tup:

 

[JR]

Re: Do you think SU's band is REALLY gonna be as good as everyone is hyping them up

Actually, my thoughts were just the opposite: that SU tries to decide how to sound increasingly brassy.


My biggest qualm with SU has always been the style of arranging. SU folks seem to love it and it is the signature of the Jukebox. That's what has made SU - well SU. And SU is FABULOUS AT WHAT IT DOES. Some have argued that my Boom and other bands have gone to a more brassy style to try to out SU the Jukebox. Regardless to whether that is the reason, it is a philosphical mistake. We all know that without changing the ratios there is no chance of being successful at that.

My real question about SU has always been whether the arranging dictates the ratios (i.e. are the ratios controlled for the sake of the arrangements) or the arranging is a result of the ratios. Just curious.

AND for the record, I want to see all of the bands be more diverse in their music, instrumentation, dance, choreography, show design - the whole gamut. I want to see our schools prepare our graduates to be able to go into any existing market and be able to hit the ground running with any program in existence.

To answer your question. I think SU arrangers over the years have arranged based on the instrumentation we have. Which was of course what Doc wanted from the outset. I also think do to SU being an all-male band for so long we didn't expect to have many woodwinds either. I mean not to many guys played piccolo or clarinet. We have for the most part had a pretty good saxophone section. I know I marched with a nice number in the 80s. So yeah the instrumentation ratio probably dictated how songs were arranged. SU reminds me of a good musical group from the 70s. The EWFs, the Brass Constructions, old Commodores, Con Funk Shun, Cameo and others. Groups that had the basic horns like sax, trumpet, and trombone. I think SU was perfectly designed for that era of music all the way till the early 90s when hip hop took over. So I loved the way we arranged stuff. To me a lot of bands who had more instrumentation made a lot of changes to the actual song just give some sections something to play. I always thought that we pretty much played stuff close to how it was originally written. Especially the power, uptempo songs.

FAMU for example I thought had the best arrangements for ballads and sounded great due to all their various instruments they had. We played Sweet Love by Anita Baker in 1986 and I thought it was nice, until I heard FAMUs that same year when we met head to head. I was like that is how that song is supposed to sound. So I think it all depends. I do understand what you are saying though.

 

[SUtrp96]

Re: Do you think SU's band is REALLY gonna be as good as everyone is hyping them up

To answer your question. I think SU arrangers over the years have arranged based on the instrumentation we have. Which was of course what Doc wanted from the outset. I also think do to SU being an all-male band for so long we didn't expect to have many woodwinds either. I mean not to many guys played piccolo or clarinet. We have for the most part had a pretty good saxophone section. I know I marched with a nice number in the 80s. So yeah the instrumentation ratio probably dictated how songs were arranged. SU reminds me of a good musical group from the 70s. The EWFs, the Brass Constructions, old Commodores, Con Funk Shun, Cameo and others. Groups that had the basic horns like sax, trumpet, and trombone. I think SU was perfectly designed for that era of music all the way till the early 90s when hip hop took over. So I loved the way we arranged stuff. To me a lot of bands who had more instrumentation made a lot of changes to the actual song just give some sections something to play. I always thought that we pretty much played stuff close to how it was originally written. Especially the power, uptempo songs.

FAMU for example I thought had the best arrangements for ballads and sounded great due to all their various instruments they had. We played Sweet Love by Anita Baker in 1986 and I thought it was nice, until I heard FAMUs that same year when we met head to head. I was like that is how that song is supposed to sound. So I think it all depends. I do understand what you are saying though.

I actually like the aggression of SU's in 86 over FAMU's... I have the tape from the first game in Shreveport... Then dayum Mellos covered the whole field with sound on that piece.. I guess it more of a preference....:tup:

 

[RoyDisciple88]

Re: Do you think SU's band is REALLY gonna be as good as everyone is hyping them up

More woodwinds would be a start. However, if the arrangements don't showcase them, then we are just talking about having a thicker band.

I HOPED (since I have absolutely no idea what to think; I don't know the people in the SU program) that jukebox would add more woodwinds and show more diversity. Everyone knows the Jukebox can produce plenty of volume with its brass, but I have NEVER heard the work of their woodwind section. We know that they produce excellent woodwind players, but we never get to hear them as a section because the philosophy heretofore has been brassy.

I am all for paying homage to tradition and what a band - any band - does well. My hope was that SU would present a more complete package than it has in the past: the same thing that I look for in EVERY band.

Doing well what you have always done is not impressive; that is simply a matter of repetition. Doing well at what you have never or rarely done is.

The reason SU has never had many woodwinds is not by design, but by circumstance. Any band you see with a large woodwind section will have more girls than boys in those sections. The exception, of course, is saxophone. The majority of the males play brass instruments. The class of '88 was the very last year there hasn't been a female in the band. Most college bands have anywhere from 20 to whatever number of girls in the band. The most girls I have ever known SU to have in the band at one time is 5, maybe 7, and that's pushing it. As a matter of fact, most college bands were male dominated from the early 80's on back to the very beginning of bands. So this has been a 'SU Thang' for a minute. It's not that girls never tried out, it's just that they didn't hang. Hell, most dudes couldn't hang!!!! The band was a lot more difficult than what it is now, but it is still more physically demanding than most bands. Not very many bands drill on the level the Southern does. I also think that sets them apart from everyone else as well.

For all the female bandheads on this site, PLEASE don't take what I said as being sexist!!! There are many young ladies that are soooo much tougher than guys!!! I think all women are simply because of the ability to have children. It's just the difference from the PGA tour and the LPGA tour. It's not that women can't compete, it's just more difficult for a woman to win. That's not being sexist, that's just the physical difference between men and women. Girls have always tried out for the band, they just haven't always made it. That's not being sexist, that's just the physical difference between men and women.

So in a way, it would be a style change. Not saying that there is a problem with girls in the band!!! It's just been a problem in SU's band. I don't have one problem with girls in the band...just not in Southern's Band!! I know that may be wrong, but it's hard to see it any other way if it's been that way for sooo long. Any band member from 89-90 on back, will always be 'Freaked Out' by the 5 or 6 girls they see in that uniform. That's just how it is in Jaguarland. :lecture:

 

[O'Bladerunner]

Re: Do you think SU's band is REALLY gonna be as good as everyone is hyping them up

FAMU for example I thought had the best arrangements for ballads and sounded great due to all their various instruments they had. We played Sweet Love by Anita Baker in 1986 and I thought it was nice, until I heard FAMUs that same year when we met head to head. I was like that is how that song is supposed to sound. So I think it all depends. I do understand what you are saying though.

And, that's how SU and FAMn end up being on the same level, even with the different instumentation. Two totally different ways to get to point "B"....but, both getting there quick.

I like FAMn's version too. But, I love the power contrast from the "U".

 

[ChicagoJag]

Re: Do you think SU's band is REALLY gonna be as good as everyone is hyping them up

... Any band member from 89-90 on back, will always be 'Freaked Out' by the 5 or 6 girls they see in that uniform. That's just how it is in Jaguarland ...

This is an absolutely true statement.

Just now, when I read Roy's comment about " ...The most girls I have ever known SU to have in the band at one time is 5, maybe 7..." something in my brain went, "5? 7? WOMEN??? In the BAND???" .There is also a Youtube video of an SU show with a girl in the band singing. When I saw the clip I had to look at it a couple of times and ended up just shaking my head. (Call me a Neaderthal but hey, it's how I was raised as a Juke!)

By the way, when I was in the Band, there was never a "rule" that women couldn't join the band, it just wasn't done. The female musicians I knew were of the opinion that, "There is too danged much testosterone going on in that band-- I don't feel like being bothered with all them crazy hardlegs."

Don't get me wrong ... I have nothing against women as musicians or even women in the band. It's just that I have absolutely no personal frame of reference for the concept -- not in the Jukebox, anyway!

 

[SimplyRedd]

Re: Do you think SU's band is REALLY gonna be as good as everyone is hyping them up

So in a way, it would be a style change. Not saying that there is a problem with girls in the band!!! It's just been a problem in SU's band. I don't have one problem with girls in the band...just not in Southern's Band!! I know that may be wrong, but it's hard to see it any other way if it's been that way for sooo long. Any band member from 89-90 on back, will always be 'Freaked Out' by the 5 or 6 girls they see in that uniform. That's just how it is in Jaguarland. :lecture:

Umm I agree. I am not a musician, but some know me to be very vocal on this issue. I don't have a problem with ladies in any band, just not Southern's...

 

[O'Bladerunner]

Re: Do you think SU's band is REALLY gonna be as good as everyone is hyping them up

Just now, when I read Roy's comment about " ...The most girls I have ever known SU to have in the band at one time is 5, maybe 7..." something in my brain went, "5? 7? WOMEN??? In the BAND???" .

ChiJag...I STILL freak out...and, I was in the first crab class that had more than one female in it.

I luv my CS's to death....but, Ive never been a fan of having females in the band.

 

[Jaguar Diehard]

Re: Do you think SU's band is REALLY gonna be as good as everyone is hyping them up

Ok...being devil's advocate....

It appears that the first years of the Juke, there were as many females as males.... Saw the pictures....

It appears that when Doc took over, he had a preference for that brass sound and the female membership started dwindling.

This is the fight Delores Spikes eventually won when she demanded that females be given a fair shake at marching and that the practices until midnite end. Was she correct? I don't know....

Personally, I believe that you should prove yourself to be an excellent addition to become a part of any organization. If you are a skilled musician and can't chew gum and walk at the same time...the Juke aint' for ya!

I believe the midnite practices came at a price, but if the students' grades different suffer and if somebody can piece the before and after data, then the Juke will have the right to argue in favor of that point.

I don't believe you let a girl in the Juke or any other band because she is a girl. I believe you let a musician who is capable of handling the rigors of the drills with heart and drive and skills play.

That is where the death of the good high school bands began. Let em in because they have a right. HELLLLLLLLLLL NAWWWWWWWWWWW!!
They can't play AND march...:flamethro

 

[SUtrp96]

Re: Do you think SU's band is REALLY gonna be as good as everyone is hyping them up

I remember DOC or Knighten or Jackson telling us how the band went to all men..

It had something to do with the war Vets coming and joining the band, and they were crazy as h3ll, shell shocked brothers.. It totally freaked the girls out along with the MANLY behavior of the wild cats in the band. So that drew the female players away and they stayed away for a good while...

 

[ChicagoJag]

Re: Do you think SU's band is REALLY gonna be as good as everyone is hyping them up

It had something to do with the war Vets coming and joining the band, and they were crazy as h3ll, shell shocked brothers.. It totally freaked the girls out along with the MANLY behavior of the wild cats in the band. So that drew the female players away and they stayed away for a good while...

The female musicians I knew were of the opinion that, "There is too danged much testosterone going on in that band-- I don't feel like being bothered with all them crazy hardlegs."

Exactly

 

[checkerboardslim]

Re: Do you think SU's band is REALLY gonna be as good as everyone is hyping them up

Me personally I think its going to be the same old predictable Southern band but with a little bit more power. I don't think they will have the same discipline anymore since Dr. Greggs is gone. But we will see.