Do Denominational Rules Conflict With The WORD?


Nonchalant

Nonchalant

Hail, Hail To Thee...
I personally have never been a big fan of all of these different denominations. I mean, I'm not knocking them, because I'm on the inside looking out. I have seen some form of "church rivalry" but I feel that certain denominational rules are affecting God's people more than anything. I've found that over the years, some C.O.G.I.C., Free Will Baptist, or Penticostal Holliness churches lose members to those big monster non-denominational churches because of ridiculous rules like..."women have no place in the pullpit, women shouldn't wear pants to church, no one is to wear any jewlery in the choir, children should be seen, not heard, ect.":rolleyes: I personally feel that it's time for some of our "spiritual shepards" to let go of the ole school "traditions" and get with the program. Don't get me wrong, not every church that is affiliated with these denominations conduct themselves in this manner but a good number of them do. One of my good friends back home in NC was telling me about his church True Vine C.O.G.I.C. At the time, they had a wonderful pastor who was young, full of energy and was covered with the annointing. He had a mostly young congregation (ages 40 on down) and it was increasing every Sunday. But the members and himself had a problem with many of the rules that thier church had to conform to under GOGIC. My boy told me that his pastor felt that it was hindering his ministry and membership growth so he requested to the NC district that True Vine step down from GOGIC. Now, about 3 years later, True Vine is one of the largest churches in Fayetteville with a beautifu new sanctuary. We need to start to focus more on Kingdom Work and Soul Salvation than being stuck in the backwards mantality. Speaking as a teenage who is in a Penticostal church, I've seen where people get the misconception that "religion" and "tradition" go hand in hand. In my opinion, speaking from the book of Nonchalant, "if it doesn't line up with the Word of God, then it'swrong...:(
 
Nonchalant,
I have not problem with you post except
churches because of ridiculous rules like..."women have no place in the pullpit, women shouldn't wear pants to church, no one is to wear any jewlery in the choir, children should be seen, not heard, ect."
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The some of the examples you gave can be defended by the Bible. If these rules you are not in agreement with, does this justify them as "rediculous"?

I feel as long as your church follows the word of God, it just doesn't matter what denomination you are. Just do work for the Lord.

:D
 



If I had to disagree with anything you state, it would be...

no one is to wear any jewlery in the choir....
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I have been singing in choirs, groups, etc., since the mid to late 60's (ok, so I started really young) and I was informed at that time that choirs had to be uniform...as in "dressed the same". The same color shoes, the same slacks for the men, the same shirts (color-wise) and most importantly no jewelry. Now why would you think this law went into affect? Well, during the "wild-child" days, it was prominent culture to wear jewelry, especially the super-hooped earrings, in various colors...greens, oranges, blues, reds, etc. There were folks who could match this jewelry with whatever they wore!!! Do you think they would be the primary focus of worship service that day? This also was the reason many choirs prohibited women from wearing make-up, but I would have to fold on that one cuz some of ya'll...um, let me leave that alone! :D

Now, the purpose of being in the choir is to lift up the praises of God through song, so the focus should be on a "potential" message or a musical expression of love for what God "has done, is doing, or will do", or just pure unadulterated praise! Remember, it's all about HIM!!! One way to keep the focus on GOD was to prohibit jewelry because jewelry was and is always a statement about SELF and not about HIM (even if it was a license plate with GOD engraved on it)!!!

The second practical reason about jewelry is that people have been known to "shout" and SNATCH whatever was within arm's reach! You wanna guess how many folks got their earrings, necklaces, etc., snatched off? It ain't a pretty sight!

My advice to those of you with questions about the old traditions and whether they are valid today would be to dig a little deeper and find out the reason for instituting such prohibitions because it can be something just as simple as "so nobody rips your ear, suga!".
 
Re: If I had to disagree with anything you state, it would be...

Originally posted by Jaguar Diehard


I have been singing in choirs, groups, etc., since the mid to late 60's (ok, so I started really young) and I was informed at that time that choirs had to be uniform...as in "dressed the same". The same color shoes, the same slacks for the men, the same shirts (color-wise) and most importantly no jewelry. Now why would you think this law went into affect? Well, during the "wild-child" days, it was prominent culture to wear jewelry, especially the super-hooped earrings, in various colors...greens, oranges, blues, reds, etc. There were folks who could match this jewelry with whatever they wore!!! Do you think they would be the primary focus of worship service that day? This also was the reason many choirs prohibited women from wearing make-up, but I would have to fold on that one cuz some of ya'll...um, let me leave that alone! :D

Now, the purpose of being in the choir is to lift up the praises of God through song, so the focus should be on a "potential" message or a musical expression of love for what God "has done, is doing, or will do", or just pure unadulterated praise! Remember, it's all about HIM!!! One way to keep the focus on GOD was to prohibit jewelry because jewelry was and is always a statement about SELF and not about HIM (even if it was a license plate with GOD engraved on it)!!!

The second practical reason about jewelry is that people have been known to "shout" and SNATCH whatever was within arm's reach! You wanna guess how many folks got their earrings, necklaces, etc., snatched off? It ain't a pretty sight!

My advice to those of you with questions about the old traditions and whether they are valid today would be to dig a little deeper and find out the reason for instituting such prohibitions because it can be something just as simple as "so nobody rips your ear, suga!".
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I'm not sure that your logic in this "jewelry" matter makes sense. If "shouting" and "snatching" and "super-hooped earrings" is mentioned as a reason in the Bible....continue. If not, don't "make up" reasons why jewelry is prohibited.
 
It has nothing to do with the Bible per se, but...

with the FOCUS!!! If you can't really relate to that one, then you must be a "Babe in Christ" and as you grow, you will find that all will be revealed. Just be patient and pray for understanding (not for patience). That was once my problem, also. Some of the things you learn eventually will lead to a clearer understanding of the "why's" in life!

God Bless!!!
 
nonchalant: i think this is a great topic! i mean let me tell u this short story. when i was growing up my mother and father were Jehovah's Witnessess. if u know about them, u know that there r a lot of traditions and things that i just did not agree with. and an example of this would be, when u sin a lot in this religion, they disfellowship u. this means u can't talk to any other JW's and u r disassociated from them for a long period of time. i just believe that when a person is so deep in sin, they should be closer to the churh. not kicked out or disfellowshiped. i mean i am now into the nondenominational thing or an untraditional demoniational church ( NEW BIRTH MISSIONARY BAPTIST CHUrCH, BISHOP EDDIE L. LONG). i believe that your personal relationship and measure of faith in God is what gets u into Heaven.
 
I can remember earlier this year on the B.E.T. late night talk show "Oh, Drama" when they had comedians Sherrell Underwood, Chocolate, and Hope with Prophettess Wynita (sp) Bynum. Oh man... :eek2: :D Did she lay the Smack Down!!!:smh: She told them that today's Christians are becoming too confused and caught up with the misconception of "religious traditions" and true salvation and sanctification. She noted that sinners are beginning to be "turned off" by our faith because of some the practices that some of us whole-heartedly feel are right. Jaguar Diehard mentioned something about being a "Babe in Christ" and that your actions and they way that you see things will be transformed in due time. I agree with you, kid. :nod: The Bible says that sinners should "come as they are"...which means that they should come in as they are to be "changed/delivered/saved". I agree that in due time they will, more than likely, change their outward appearance. ie: Daisy Dukes, tight mini skirts, revealing clothes or outragious hair-do's. But, if someone wears jewlery, or a woman wears pants suits, or something that is not offensive and will not cause distraction or confussion in the house of God, then let them wear it. We, as Christians, have to remember that we're doing "KINGDOM WORK" not make-overs. We're hear working for Jesus to win souls, set the captives free, to be witnesses. I do believe that we should come to the house of God looking out Best but we come for a purpose...and that is to lift up, worship, and glorfiy the name of Jesus.
 
Originally posted by docmump
Nonchalant,
I have not problem with you post except
The some of the examples you gave can be defended by the Bible. If these rules you are not in agreement with, does this justify them as "rediculous"?

I feel as long as your church follows the word of God, it just doesn't matter what denomination you are. Just do work for the Lord.

:D
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No, I would have to disagree with you on that. You mean people can take any scripture and make it conform to what they want people to believe. You have to read all the scriptures around what you are trying to say to. You also have to look into the history in the bible around the scriptures. The Word has to be rightly divided.
 
Originally posted by str8brave


No, I would have to disagree with you on that. You mean people can take any scripture and make it conform to what they want people to believe. You have to read all the scriptures around what you are trying to say to. You also have to look into the history in the bible around the scriptures. The Word has to be rightly divided.
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Str8brave,
I may be misunderstanding what you posted. Please, go into more details.
What I am understanding is I am a mean person that twist the scripture to fit the message i want to convey instead of researching the scripture and painting a full picture. Do I have it right. If so, then I will reply after you verify it. If I dont, then explain.

:)
 
No, I was not calling you mean. I just forgot to put a comma behind "you mean". Sorry, I was trying to say what you meant and I was sarcastically saying what you probably should have said.
 
Let's get right down to it. What happend to come as you are? At my church which happens to be a non-denominational chruch I wear whatever I want..Jewelry included...My church home is not a traditional one. And if your in the chior you can where whatever you want...because there wearing robes over their cloths..once again Jewelry included. It doens't matter what you where as long as you know that your/everybody is coming to Worship The Lord...forget all that other stuff, that stuff isn't even important It's all about GOD. I could come to my church in some shorts,t-shirt,my gold chain and Worship like someone wearing a pinstriped suit and nothing would be said. God sees your heart no your cloths....God is not respector of persons..rich,poor,skinny,fat, He sees the real you by looking directly at your heart.:D
 
Originally posted by docmump
Nonchalant,
I have not problem with you post except
The some of the examples you gave can be defended by the Bible. If these rules you are not in agreement with, does this justify them as "rediculous"?

I feel as long as your church follows the word of God, it just doesn't matter what denomination you are. Just do work for the Lord.

:D
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Now that's just custom in certain faiths though.
 
If individuals do and indept study of God's word. They will find that Jesus, taught against denomination. Additionally, during the times of the apostles, there was only one church.

God, has given us via his word,all we need to know about the church and how to become and remain saved. Anything, that is taught out side of God's word as it relates to the church and salvation has to be the works of man. I do not understand why "people" do not understand that God has standards, and we will be judged by His standards. It's to bad that so many people are going to be lost, because they are listening to man rather than God.
 
I tried HARD not to Respond to this Thread.

Originally posted by H
If individuals do and indept study of God's word. They will find that Jesus, taught against denomination. Additionally, during the times of the apostles, there was only one church.

God, has given us via his word,all we need to know about the church and how to become and remain saved. Anything, that is taught out side of God's word as it relates to the church and salvation has to be the works of man. I do not understand why "people" do not understand that God has standards, and we will be judged by His standards. It's to bad that so many people are going to be lost, because they are listening to man rather than God.
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I Agree with H. This is the Same thing that Abel did, The children of Isreal in the Wilderness, The people at the Temple when Christ Kick them out.

They wanted to do what they wanted to do and not live up to God's standards. Sacrifice themselves for the Lord.

Paul explains to us that we present ourself a living Sacrifice in Romans 12:1. That we Sacrifice ourselves for the Lord. Instead of complaining about wearing a dress to church or wearing Jewlery.

Remember John when he was baptizing in the Jordan and Jesus came. The first thing John Stated was "This is him." Christ wanted John to Baptize him and John refused at first. Christ told him to do it, to sacrifice himself and baptize me.

All I am saying is Sacrifice yourselves and Serve God. If your church has rules, Sacrifice yourself and Serve God.

Sorry for riding on what you stated H. I kinda when left on your words, but I agree, we are focusing too much on Man and not enough on God, God's Standards, and his standards for the church.

There is a place in the Bible that stated "Take off all Jewlery and Lets Worship God." I am going to find it and post it in this thread.

:)
 



Re: I tried HARD not to Respond to this Thread.

Originally posted by docmump

There is a place in the Bible that stated "Take off all Jewlery and Lets Worship God." I am going to find it and post it in this thread.

:)
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What happend to come as you are in to the house of the Lord? You can worship God with a iced out chain on.You can worship God with a gray shirt that's been bleached and some sweat pants that have holes them. It's not that serious it's just a shiny metal that some are blessed to have. Sometime I wear my gold chain to chruch nobody says anything..why would they? If I come to chruch in some jeans and a t-shirt, or some dress slacks it doesn't matter. God's not looking at what im wearing He's looking direactly at my heart. I don't see whats the "big" deal about what attire you have on while in the santuary. Everyone is there hopefully to hear of ways get in better personal relationship with the Father. It seems like to me that the only people with the problem are the ones looking around at what everybody has on when they should be worshiping the Lord. I'm waiting to see where what you typed is in the bible at.
 
It's a common belief that when you go to church you have to look a certain way, or look "holy", whatever that it is: no jewelry, no pants 4 girls, only suits for guys, etc..
I've even heard people will say things like, "I would go to church today, but I don't have any Church Clothes with me.":confused: What scriptures defines "Church Clothes."

I really don't thing God has a problem with someone 'bling blingin' with jewelry at church or keeping up with the latest style of dressing. I'm not saying wear 'booty-club clothes' but we can make ourselves look good. What you wear is your preference, not a requirement for corporate worship. I don't believe that there's a such thing looking saved or looking ready for worship based on your attire. That's just denominational stuff that focuses too much on appearance.

As a matter of fact, some of y'all looked better BEFORE you got saved than you do?..never mind. I'll just say I'm with TuBaFrEak on this one.:tup: Come as you are not only means your spiritual condition, but most of the time your outward appearance also.;)
 
OKAY...let's me put it this way....

Speaking just on choirs again....

It behooves those of us in the choir to remove MOST of the accentuating jewelry because MOST of us wearing uniforms DEDICATED to the LORD and to his SERVICE wear such things to VARIOUS outings that are NOT...shall we say... becoming of a Christian!!! No one is perfect, but be realistic...How many choir members we see with the "bling, bling" on all over town in "various" settings doing "various" things and then prance in LATE to the CHOIR STAND???

Everyone else, let your conscience be your guide.
 
You could not have put it any better!!!

Originally posted by millhouse05
nonchalant: i think this is a great topic! i mean let me tell u this short story. when i was growing up my mother and father were Jehovah's Witnessess. if u know about them, u know that there r a lot of traditions and things that i just did not agree with. and an example of this would be, when u sin a lot in this religion, they disfellowship u. this means u can't talk to any other JW's and u r disassociated from them for a long period of time. i just believe that when a person is so deep in sin, they should be closer to the churh. not kicked out or disfellowshiped. i mean i am now into the nondenominational thing or an untraditional demoniational church ( NEW BIRTH MISSIONARY BAPTIST CHUrCH, BISHOP EDDIE L. LONG). i believe that your personal relationship and measure of faith in God is what gets u into Heaven.
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World Changer here!!! I agree with you 100%. If it does not line up with word who cares. Make better use of your time than worry about things that have absolutely no logic to it. Let's not reinvent the wheel people. It has already been given to us. All We have to do is take heed and follow!!!
 
How many choir members we see with the "bling, bling" on all over town in "various" settings doing "various" things
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What kind of 'things' are the choir members at Your church doing all over town that's so bad? Is it -he said she said- 'things' or were you also there with them to witness these 'things'? Do you really believe their bad 'things' that they do have something to do with their jewelry? What about the choir members who wear 'bling bling' stuff AND show up on time on Sunday mornings. God was right when He said "man focuses completely on the outside appearance, BUT I look at the Heart." - Thank You Jesus For That!
 
Alrighty then...I got me some young folks in on this...

I love these type of forums because what you get is a cross-sectional view of beliefs and interpretations... not saying that any of it is wrong, but it is an interpretation worth considering....

To answer your question neva....

I don't deal with "he said, she said".
I don't even think that Christians shouldn't be allowed to go to night clubs. *I do believe that you have to set examples, though.*

Jesus, himself went to places and talked to people considered unworthy of Jews, let alone the Messiah! He loves us all and wants us to be with Him!!

Now with that being said, we can go back to the period of Babylonian captivity and deal with "the hand writing on the wall". Now I don't have my "Word" handy at this workstation, but if I'm not mistaken, a celebration was going on in which articles that were "dedicated to the service of God" were removed, say, STOLEN from the temple to be used for whatever purpose outside of their original intent. Bible scholars can look at those passages, the background, etc., and draw your own conclusions about items "dedicated to the service of God". Some things you just don't do, better yet...don't take a chance with. God deserves our LOVE and RESPECT!!!

So what's wrong with wearing jewelry ON TOP of a choir robe (other attire is debateable if it is not dedicated)? Maybe YOU (if you search yourself, first) have to answer that one for yourself!!

How can you learn if you don't ask questions?

Great vehicle for these type of discussions!
 
Some things you just don't do, better yet...don't take a chance with. God deserves our LOVE and RESPECT!!!
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MY opinion,
I believe that it is a Very Religious way of thinking to assume that God gives 'kool points' for those who go to church without jewelry or for those who wear "church clothes" (suits, longgggg dresses, etc) The requirement for Worshipping God is in the new Testament is......"Do It In Spirit AND In Truth!" Not according your physical appearance. What does that mean?

1) It means that you MAY have young folks go to church with hats on backwards, pants baggy, tattoes & blue hair who can make God smile and say, "Well done servant" because they're sincere. (these people do exist)

2) It also means that you can have people go to church with NO jewelry, a dress down to their ankle, suit & tie, standards "church clothes", sang in the chior, follow all of their church traditions AND WOULDN'T KNOW GOD even if He came and sat down on their lap! (even more of these people exist)

God sends people to grow His Kingdom and deliver His people and we're turning God's choice vessels away because, "They don't LOOK right to us.":bawling: We want people in church looking like OUR idea of Holy. Moses didn't look right. Mary didn't look right. Paul/Saul sure didn't look right, to people. If we EVER start to look at this world through our Spiritual eyes as God does and not just focus on the outward stuff, tradition would turn in it's grave. As I said earlier, some saints looked better before they got saved than they do now.

The MAIN question that we need to have God answer is, "What's the difference between Your Perfect Will Lord & Man's MANY MANY Traditions?"

I believe that we can worship God in Spirit and in Truth and be inside of God's Will AND wear jewelry on top of our chior robes at the same time because WE do it every week at my Church. God has not given us ANY conviction for doing this. As as matter of fact, He's right in the midst of it all saving 100's every week.

If God convicts your church about wearing certain things or leads your pastor to speak against it, you should be obient of course. We have common goals of Saving people for Jesus so as long as we're doing that, this other stuff is probably not worth too too much debate.

p.s.
Remember when Satan was n Heaven in charge of Worship? Read about how GOD Dressed Him up. Here's a hint.......Bling, Bling!;)
 
Cool Post

Denominational Barriers can be very blinding at times. Sometimes you don't know whats going on. I have a friend that got baptised twice because of the name to get baptised in...

I was like realease your faith and deal with it. Theres no need to ever bee that confused about something. Denominations cause people to not know alot of things.

Like catholics eally don't have a personal relationship with God because they talk to the priest.

Christians do flock to the "Monster Nondenominational Churches" known as Megachurches because there aren't any walls. There aren't any restrictions on what you can and cannot not do such as jewelry. Jewelry makes a woman look so beutiful. Why shouldn't she wear any?

Just my thoughts
 
With all due respect to denominations and their traditions/rules, I will NEVER again be a member of a church that tries to control what I wear or what I eat. Albeit, I do agree that everything worn should be in good taste (not too tight, too short, etc.) out of respect. However, we can come to the Lord just as we are, and HE will transform us, not someone who is standing at the door being clothing cop. That, I don't need. I also agree that we should treat our bodies with respect and dignity....That is in the eye of the beholder.

Juanita Bynum was right. I read in the Bible where God said, "Your traditions, I hate!" .....

My church is of a denomination, but you wouldn't know by sitting inside. While my church teaches the word, we are also taught to be respectful of other people's traditons or what have you...

When I sang in the choir, my director always told us if we could wear pants under our robe or not when visiting other churches. She said we may be free in that respect, but there was no need to disrespect someone else's belief if they had not been weined from the milk and given the meat....
 
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