Booker T Washington was a boot licker, Sambo...


Blacknbengal

Well-Known Member

Read pages 6-7 in book. That Boot licker, shoe shiner sold our people out. Sorry Sap Sucker!!!
 

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I always felt a certain way about him since reading the debate he had with WEB DuBois.
This book is in the Library of Congress. I NEVER thought it would say this. I was reading this for other information and just happened stumbled over this bit of information.
 

Read pages 6-7 in book. That Boot licker, shoe shiner sold our people out. Sorry Sap Sucker!!!
I disagree Beans, I don't have time right now to explain. I'll check back in later this evening with an explanation.
 
I thought this had already been addressed. They were working together. Washington was bankrolling Dubois and others. I thought someone had done a book on it but I know Dr. Greg Carr has done lectures about the subject. The enemy( and their minions) took that speech and did what they do.
 
Here in Alabama, over the last 30 years or so, we downplayed career tech so much in favor of academics that businesses complained to the state department that high school graduates were not ready for the workforce. Now there is a statewide focus on getting people back into workforce skills (College and Career Ready). Now students can get certifications or credits towards certifications as a part of their high school curriculums.
 
Here in Alabama, over the last 30 years or so, we downplayed career tech so much in favor of academics that businesses complained to the state department that high school graduates were not ready for the workforce. Now there is a statewide focus on getting people back into workforce skills (College and Career Ready). Now students can get certifications or credits towards certifications as a part of their high school curriculums.

We had those programs already in schools. Until a certain segment had it removed.

Why? Because when Van Wilder flunked out of college or Daddy stopped paying-he ran to Devry and Lincoln Tech. Problem is he was already behind the 8ball because Pedro, Jose, Trayvon and Carl took those same career classes in high school and were making money. And being Van Wilder's boss.

Black and Brown folks were fighting to get those programs back for the kids not interested in college for years. Now we got colleges using those programs to still get kids by having the training in school and have x amount of college credit before graduation.
 
I disagree Beans, I don't have time right now to explain. I'll check back in later this evening with an explanation.
You have to read Booker's ideas out of this book that's in the Library of Congress. It tells a different picture of what I was taught. Now, Dubois is mentioned in this book also, but his ideas are consistent to what I was taught.

Booker was a Boot Licker!!!
 
And why would they write these things about Booker and write nicer things about Dubois when he was thr radical? He was the "troublemaker" foe them.

Don't get it.

Now, I don't know the criteria for getting things in the Library of Congress, but this book is there.
 
I don't know about Booker T being a bootlicker. There were reported philosophical differences between he and DuBois.

I read that when Booker T wanted to start that small school in Alabama the local white folks were opposed to it because they felt educated Negroes would be a threat. Somehow Booker T convinced them that those attending Tuskegee would be no trouble. The rest is history.
 
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Ralph Ellison alluded to this in a passage from the invisible man. On balance he was good for the people, for the culture. he left TU as a legacy and that tilts the scales in spite of the controversy.
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And why would they write these things about Booker and write nicer things about Dubois when he was thr radical? He was the "troublemaker" foe them.

Don't get it.
They the writers were not privy to the meeting between Washington and Dubois. They only saw what they saw and only wrote about that. I just can't see anyone who is talking about doing for self as a boot licker. In Before The Mayflower, Leone Bennett talked how all of the skilled labor was Black.
 
They the writers were not privy to the meeting between Washington and Dubois. They only saw what they saw and only wrote about that. I just can't see anyone who is talking about doing for self as a boot licker. In Before The Mayflower, Leone Bennett talked how all of the skilled labor was Black.
one of my favorite books.
 
I think we have to be very careful when talking about our ancestors who endured things we did not have to face. I mean let's be real navigating those days of slavery, post slavery and Jim Crow had to be tough. No matter what you did there was someone to criticize. It's easier to benefit off of others then being the one to sacrifice and make tough decisions. I for one will not take part in criticizing those who came before me. It's just like the Malcom X vs Dr. King debate. Some how our people find it to disrespect both of these men who sacrificed something 90% of black people wouldn't do today. Their lives! It's just like the black people who always say they hate Obama. When you ask them why they can only repeat narratives from someone else.
 

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They the writers were not privy to the meeting between Washington and Dubois. They only saw what they saw and only wrote about that. I just can't see anyone who is talking about doing for self as a boot licker. In Before The Mayflower, Leone Bennett talked how all of the skilled labor was Black.
Naw man, this guy. Hold up. I'll be back in a min.....
 
Ok. Here is the guy:


And his book is "The Black Man in America and across the Seas", as well as, "The African Abroad" series. Check him out and tell me what you think.
 
I was not familiar with William Henry Ferris until your introduction. From the link I see that he ended up following Marcus Garvey. Garvey was inspired by Booker T. Washington.

Someone put the philosophies of Washington and Dubois at odds and made us feel as if we had to choose one or the other. I don't know if it was just the time period (Black people trying to find a place in this society and trying to reinvent themselves after slavery) or paid agitators to keep us from uniting and using our power (the same power and skills that had built the country). Booth philosophies have there place.
 
I was not familiar with William Henry Ferris until your introduction. From the link I see that he ended up following Marcus Garvey. Garvey was inspired by Booker T. Washington.

Someone put the philosophies of Washington and Dubois at odds and made us feel as if we had to choose one or the other. I don't know if it was just the time period (Black people trying to find a place in this society and trying to reinvent themselves after slavery) or paid agitators to keep us from uniting and using our power (the same power and skills that had built the country). Booth philosophies have there place.
I've wanted to chime in so bad from the moment I saw this thread being created, but I wanted to take my time (which is just hard for me to have at the moment) and make sure I have my facts straight and can provide sources.

Yet, I am very familiar with this debate and discussion, but it has been such a minute since anyone that I know brought it up.

Though not as publicized, Washington and William H. Councill had their own opposite views as well that I've learned was very intense. I think that would be for another thread and time.

My direct source comes from a beloved Tuskegee History Professor by the name of Frank Toland (RIP) that would often highlight the noted differences between Washington and Dubois. I remember him putting it in simple layman terms. -->Washington really despised and hated the atrocities done to Blacks by Whites, but he kept his hostilities in house. He knew he had to be smart about his approach and negotiations. His understanding was that in order for Blacks to get want they wanted and needed, they had to go about it in unique way. Therefore, he seemed to push the ideas of doing for self so that those that were in power could see and acknowledge what we are doing and from them we could get whatever resources that we needed (money, schools, businesses, tools, etc.).

As for my own stance, I side with both Booker and DuBois as there is a time and place for everything. Some of the greatest gains in our communities have happened by just being smart and playing our cards just right. #anothermansopinion
 
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I can’t believe we’re having this debate given the State of African America. We dominate sports and entertainment, but most, if not all, of the big money makers of the industry are non-Black. We own no means of production, which means we really don’t create jobs for Our people. Things haven’t been so good for the Talented Tenth or the skilled laborer in the Black World.
 
I can’t believe we’re having this debate given the State of African America. We dominate sports and entertainment, but most, if not all, of the big money makers of the industry are non-Black. We own no means of production, which means we really don’t create jobs for Our people. Things haven’t been so good for the Talented Tenth or the skilled laborer in the Black World.
We NEED to have this discussion, as well as others. For so long, discussions have been put on hold for "the right time" and it only hurt our community. Now is the time for discussions.
 
I've wanted to chime in so bad from the moment I saw this thread being created, but I wanted to take my time (which is just hard for me to have at the moment) and make sure I have my facts straight and can provide sources.

Yet, I am very familiar with this debate and discussion, but it has been such a minute since anyone that I know brought it up.

Though not as publicized, Washington and William H. Councill had their own opposite views as well that I've learned was very intense. I think that would be for another thread and time.

My direct source comes from a beloved Tuskegee History Professor by the name of Frank Toland (RIP) that would often highlight the noted differences between Washington and Dubois. I remember him putting it in simple layman terms. -->Washington really despised and hated the atrocities done to Blacks by Whites, but he kept his hostilities in house. He knew he had to be smart about his approach and negotiations. His understanding was that in order for Blacks to get want they wanted and needed, they had to go about it in unique way. Therefore, he seemed to push the ideas of doing for self so that those that were in power could see and acknowledge what we are doing and from them we could get whatever resources that we needed (money, schools, businesses, tools, etc.).

As for my own stance, I side with both Booker and DuBois as there is a time and place for everything. Some of the greatest gains in our communities have happened by just being smart and playing our cards just right. #anothermansopinion
Booker T Washington vs William Hooper Councill started the A&M- Skegee rivalry...the State Black Archives located on campus still has the correspondence letters between BTW and Councill
 
You have to read Booker's ideas out of this book that's in the Library of Congress. It tells a different picture of what I was taught. Now, Dubois is mentioned in this book also, but his ideas are consistent to what I was taught.

Booker was a Boot Licker!!!
BnB,

I have read Booker T. Washington's autobiography, Up from Slavery, I am quite aware of his position on things at that time and place in which he lived. I have also read Dubois' "Souls of Black Folks".

Among Washington's harshest critics were Dubois, Trotter and Ferris. All of them were Harvard educated northerners that no doubt got into Harvard during that era via white benefactors. Think about that for a moment. If you put their criticism of Washington under close examination their complaint has more to do with what their class of black folks, at that time, would lose rather than what the black masses stood to gain. You can look, but you will find little to no actual labor or practicums for the theories or ideologies they espoused to help the masses. Does that make them bad people, lost or misguided? Of course not, but I think for all their education each of them failed to fully grasp the complexities of life in the south for blacks, and how carefully blacks in the south had to tread just to survive after union troops were pulled from the south as a result of the Hayes-Tilden Compromise. Also, in their failure to weigh all considerations, is the noticeable absence of mentioning the lynching of black folk, black church burnings, black school burnings, black businesses burned to the ground and land owned by blacks forcibly stolen from them.

I believe those guys whole-heartedly believed their theories and ideology were the best path for black folks, but I also believe they failed to realize their thoughts were not an absolute, and certainly did not equate to a one size fits all solution for blacks at that time no more so than it does now. I venture say history has proven that out. What I'm saying may seem hyper-critical of them, but it has to be acknowledged they went after Washington first and not vice-versa.

As for Washington, let's be real as real can get. To a large degree he is mainly criticized and excoriated by some for the speech he gave known as the Atlanta Compromise. With that said, if while looking back, we fail to consider the challenges and threats Washington and all blacks faced in the antebellum south, and allow ourselves to get caught up in a fit emotion because it seems he is appeasing whites with his words at the expense of black progress then we become susceptible to making the same erroneous assertions as Dubois, Trotter and Ferris.

In my opinion, as I assess Washington's words and deeds, I see a man well aware of his time that definitely understood white folks of his time. It can be said that he either played white southerners like a fiddle or thought the ends justified the means. Since he successfully got in their pockets, was summoned by two U.S. presidents and successfully persuaded another U.S. president to visit Tuskegee I will declare he played them like a fiddle with one persistent goal in mind. That singular focused goal was to uplift the masses from their prior condition.

Conjecture aside, what can't be denied, despite what some consider words of appeasement in the Atlanta Compromise speech, is his intentional devotion and commitment of his life to the training, educating and uplifting of the poor huddled masses of black folks fresh out of enslavement that would have to find a way to survive in a terroristic environment, an environment in which he, Washington, could have easily been lynched himself, at a moment's notice, had he not found a way to make southern white folks that could kill blacks with impunity feel comfortable and unthreatened.

My final thoughts on Booker T. Washington come to close with this caveat, to accurately understand his intentions and motives requires a look at his actions first, and words a distant second, in order to better understand what he said and why he said it. If done, there is not much left to conclude other than he considered his words a necessary evil to engage white southerners in terms acceptable to them, all in furtherance of his overall goal and commitment to uplift his people.

Tuskegee is now 142 years old and still primarily educates black folks. Washington's legacy and work endures till this very day. Instead of excoriating him we should be unquestionably venerating him.
 
“Tuskegee is now 142 years old and still primarily educates black folks. Washington's legacy and work endures till this very day. Instead of excoriating him we should be unquestionably venerating him.”

Well-said, Brother!
 
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