Blacknbengal
Well-Known Member
So Dr H, are you saying that God is not performing miricales anymore? That the lame is not being healed, the blind are giving sight, the deaf are not made to hear, or cancer is not being cured?Dr H.. said:
Benny Hinn
- Thread starter nevaehinvesting
- Start date
Dr H..
Active Member
I have never denied that God, has ceased his work. However I am saying that God is not performing miracles through the laying on of hands and speaking in tongues.
Now my question is - explain 1 Corinthians 13.
Ok, you are saying that God is a lie, when he said according to verse 8.
I do not believe Hinn, can walk up to a dead man and bring him back to life like the apostles. I do not believe he can, lay hands on a person with cancer and heal them. That is not how God work in this day and time.
The miracles and speaking in tongues were for the confirmation of the gospel. Now we have the gospel, why is there a need for speaking in tongues and the laying on of hands?
"What is it that you feel that God blesses us with when we seek Him?"
Seek Ye First the Kingdom of God" (Matthew 6-7)
"What is it that you feel that God blesses us with when we seek Him?"
Seek Ye First the Kingdom of God" (Matthew 6-7)
I can only speak for myself -
My first priority is seeking the Kingdom of God first (before my own will, desires, my our life). In making the Kingdom of God my priority, it takes my attention and affection away from other things. Seeking first of the Kingdom is the seeking out of God's will first of all. I have learned through trial and error, to be completely and totally submitted to the will of God has brought me to a level of understanding where I have to give up certain thing, in order to please him and not myself.
Based on my years of studying, teaching and preaching, the trouble has been that we want to do God's will, and at the same time we still want to do our own will, the two just does not blend together.
Have you ever read 1 Kings Chapter 3 ? this can be a parallel scripture
Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?
10And the speech pleased the LORD, that Solomon had asked this thing.
11 And God said unto him, Because thou hast asked this thing, and hast not asked for thyself long life; neither hast asked riches for thyself, nor hast asked the life of thine enemies; but hast asked for thyself understanding to discern judgment;
12Behold, I have done according to thy words: lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee.
13And I have also given thee that which thou hast not asked, both riches, and honour: so that there shall not be any among the kings like unto thee all thy days.
God has blessed me with what I have longed desired, that is understanding his word, because I am seeking his kingdom
Now my question is - explain 1 Corinthians 13.
Ok, you are saying that God is a lie, when he said according to verse 8.
I do not believe Hinn, can walk up to a dead man and bring him back to life like the apostles. I do not believe he can, lay hands on a person with cancer and heal them. That is not how God work in this day and time.
The miracles and speaking in tongues were for the confirmation of the gospel. Now we have the gospel, why is there a need for speaking in tongues and the laying on of hands?
"What is it that you feel that God blesses us with when we seek Him?"
Seek Ye First the Kingdom of God" (Matthew 6-7)
"What is it that you feel that God blesses us with when we seek Him?"
Seek Ye First the Kingdom of God" (Matthew 6-7)
I can only speak for myself -
My first priority is seeking the Kingdom of God first (before my own will, desires, my our life). In making the Kingdom of God my priority, it takes my attention and affection away from other things. Seeking first of the Kingdom is the seeking out of God's will first of all. I have learned through trial and error, to be completely and totally submitted to the will of God has brought me to a level of understanding where I have to give up certain thing, in order to please him and not myself.
Based on my years of studying, teaching and preaching, the trouble has been that we want to do God's will, and at the same time we still want to do our own will, the two just does not blend together.
Have you ever read 1 Kings Chapter 3 ? this can be a parallel scripture
Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?
10And the speech pleased the LORD, that Solomon had asked this thing.
11 And God said unto him, Because thou hast asked this thing, and hast not asked for thyself long life; neither hast asked riches for thyself, nor hast asked the life of thine enemies; but hast asked for thyself understanding to discern judgment;
12Behold, I have done according to thy words: lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee.
13And I have also given thee that which thou hast not asked, both riches, and honour: so that there shall not be any among the kings like unto thee all thy days.
God has blessed me with what I have longed desired, that is understanding his word, because I am seeking his kingdom
CriTAUcal
Do Good; Good Follows
Dr H.. said:
So what you're saying is that you know God that well that you know how He operates at all times and with every individual?
Could you explain these verses for me: (can't remember the exact words and don't have my Bible at hand at the moment) of where God is the same yesterday, today and forevermore and also the verse of where He says that "His thoughts are not our thoughts..."'
Help me with that, please.
dacontinent
Preacher
Dr H.. said:
Dr. H, lets deal with 1 Corinthians 13...and 14
1 Cor 13:8-13
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying..13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also...18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:...32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints...37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. Therefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order.
So, to make a long story shorter, when did that which is perfect come to make that which is done in part go away? Furthermore, if it was already done in Paul's day from Chapter 13, why is he encouraging its continuance in Chapter 14?
As for Satan and his pseudo-miracles...The scripture is pretty clear on this.
2 Thess 2:1-12
2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming. Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
I have been on the lookout for the fella described above for a long time; since the first time I ever read this passage. He has not shown himself yet. Pastor Benny Hinn certainly does not fit the description. Stay watchful.
Dr H..
Active Member
So, to make a long story shorter, when did that which is perfect come to make that which is done in part go away? Furthermore, if it was already done in Paul's day from Chapter 13, why is he encouraging its continuance in Chapter 14?
The perfect the scriptures are speaking about is the complete revelation of God as it relates to Christianity. As I stated in my previous comments the completion of the NT, and we have it. In other words when John, finished the book or Revelation that was the end of everything God wanted us to know. Some say that ?the perfect? refer to Christ, that?s impossible because of the grammatical structure. If was referring to Christ, has He not walked among men and fulfilled His mission. Therefore, however the scripture is interpreted or mis-interpreted, those gifts mentioned by Paul have ended.
Remember the Greeks like the Hebrews did not have Chapters or paragraphs. So, chapter ?14? is a continuation of chapter ?1? 1 Corinthians 1 & 2 is one long letter to the Church at Corinth. ?Paul, is not encouraging them to glossa in 14 ? in fact he is saying do not do it, because it does not edify anyone?
I am not sure of what part you are referring to in 14. However, in Chapter 14, the word for tongue is glossa, meaning speaking in a ?foreign? language. There were members of that particular congregation glossa, during ?worship? service. To understand the main problem in Corinth, you would need to study the history of the early churches in that particular region, which is too long to go into. The main problem ?the place of women in relation to a man?s position in the church? with this congregation is the women exercising spiritual gifts, at this point you have to tie in Chapter 1. The women wanted to interject their ?worldly freedom into the church?
Paul is dealing with public worship service ? ?verse 23? notice three words ?whole church assembles?
Notice: the emphasis is on speaking {laleo, to talk or speak} in glossa & prophesy {speaking Gods words}. So what Paul, is talking about is glossa for edification, because of what he writes in verse 26. He is saying, when you glossa, when the entire congregation comes together, no one is edified. So rather than glossa where no one is edified rather prophesy because by prophesying you are speaking so that the people can understand what is happening therefore they are edified.
The Corinthian Church had members from various locations and spoke various glossa "dialects and languages". Then Paul said if you are going to glossa, make sure there is someone there to interpret it, but it is preferable that you do not glossa. In other words ? if you are in Germany at a church service and you spoke and understood only Arabic or various dialects - would you be edified during the services ?NO? therefore, Paul is saying if you are going to speak German make sure that there is someone there that can translate German to Arabic so those that speak Arabic can be edified.
I think the reason so many mis-understand parts of the NT because it is ?transliterated? according to the modern day ?English? rules of grammar. In English, we write our words in a particular order for clarity. On the other hand the Greeks were not concerned about clarity and ?smoothness? They were concerned about placing emphasis on what they were talking about.
The perfect the scriptures are speaking about is the complete revelation of God as it relates to Christianity. As I stated in my previous comments the completion of the NT, and we have it. In other words when John, finished the book or Revelation that was the end of everything God wanted us to know. Some say that ?the perfect? refer to Christ, that?s impossible because of the grammatical structure. If was referring to Christ, has He not walked among men and fulfilled His mission. Therefore, however the scripture is interpreted or mis-interpreted, those gifts mentioned by Paul have ended.
Remember the Greeks like the Hebrews did not have Chapters or paragraphs. So, chapter ?14? is a continuation of chapter ?1? 1 Corinthians 1 & 2 is one long letter to the Church at Corinth. ?Paul, is not encouraging them to glossa in 14 ? in fact he is saying do not do it, because it does not edify anyone?
I am not sure of what part you are referring to in 14. However, in Chapter 14, the word for tongue is glossa, meaning speaking in a ?foreign? language. There were members of that particular congregation glossa, during ?worship? service. To understand the main problem in Corinth, you would need to study the history of the early churches in that particular region, which is too long to go into. The main problem ?the place of women in relation to a man?s position in the church? with this congregation is the women exercising spiritual gifts, at this point you have to tie in Chapter 1. The women wanted to interject their ?worldly freedom into the church?
Paul is dealing with public worship service ? ?verse 23? notice three words ?whole church assembles?
Notice: the emphasis is on speaking {laleo, to talk or speak} in glossa & prophesy {speaking Gods words}. So what Paul, is talking about is glossa for edification, because of what he writes in verse 26. He is saying, when you glossa, when the entire congregation comes together, no one is edified. So rather than glossa where no one is edified rather prophesy because by prophesying you are speaking so that the people can understand what is happening therefore they are edified.
The Corinthian Church had members from various locations and spoke various glossa "dialects and languages". Then Paul said if you are going to glossa, make sure there is someone there to interpret it, but it is preferable that you do not glossa. In other words ? if you are in Germany at a church service and you spoke and understood only Arabic or various dialects - would you be edified during the services ?NO? therefore, Paul is saying if you are going to speak German make sure that there is someone there that can translate German to Arabic so those that speak Arabic can be edified.
I think the reason so many mis-understand parts of the NT because it is ?transliterated? according to the modern day ?English? rules of grammar. In English, we write our words in a particular order for clarity. On the other hand the Greeks were not concerned about clarity and ?smoothness? They were concerned about placing emphasis on what they were talking about.
Blacknbengal
Well-Known Member
So you dont think that God is performing healing miracles through the laying on of hands? So are you believing that God is performing miracles through someone's words? That the messenger of God is speaking the word and the people are becoming healed? Cause you know sometimes the afflicted person do not have enough faith to speak the words and believe themselves.Dr H.. said:
Dr H..
Active Member
Hinn, is a fake and
this is why.
I know some believe in ?Modern Day? prophets and prophetess. How many do us here on TV that calls them or take on the title of a prophets or prophetess? As I have studied he OT Prophets, whenever God was in the process of sending instruction to Israel or the Gentile Nations, the writer said ?the word of the Lord came to? The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying?
I have heard several of the Benny Hinn and other attempt to use the same language. However, how many of the self proclaimed prophets or prophetess has spoken prophecy that came true.
I had to do some research ?
Orlando Christian Center, Dec. 31st, 1989.
"The Spirit tells me - Fidel Castro will die - in the 90's. Oooh my! Some will try to kill him and they will not succeed. But there will come a change in his physical health, and he will not stay in power, and Cuba will be visited of God."
- Benny Hinn.
Castro, is still living and in power in Cuba.
Orlando Christian Center, Dec. 31st, 1989.
"The Lord also tells me to tell you in the mid 90's, about '94-'95, no later than that, God will destroy the homosexual community of America. [audience applauds] But He will not destroy it - with what many minds have thought Him to be, He will destroy it with fire. And many will turn and be saved, and many will rebel and be destroyed."
- Benny Hinn
Those that are practicing homosexuality are still living.
Note that Benny Hinn claimed that God revealed the above prophecies to him. Now either God has erred, or Benny Hinn invented these prophecies and he never heard from God. The truth should be obvious - Benny Hinn does not hear from God, he is without doubt a false prophet
April 21st, 2000 - This Is Your Day
"You know, yesterday on the program I was telling you and the audience here that Ruth Heflin, the prophetess, had sent me a word from the Lord, where she said that the Lord had spoken to her clearly, that, a, for me to prepare myself, for the Lord is going to visibly appear, on the platform, in one of our crusades. I pray it'll happen in every crusade. But I have a feeling, I am just telling you honestly, I have even told some of our staff, when I go to Kenya, I am going to Kenya in just a few days from now, a million people will be in Kenya, Nairobi. I feel in my being it is going to happen there. So pray for us as we go to Kenya. I pray it will happen tonight, at the good Friday service in Nashville. I pray it will happen in every crusade."
- Benny Hinn
-
- Listen to the audio?s
-
http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/tbn.htm
this is why.
I know some believe in ?Modern Day? prophets and prophetess. How many do us here on TV that calls them or take on the title of a prophets or prophetess? As I have studied he OT Prophets, whenever God was in the process of sending instruction to Israel or the Gentile Nations, the writer said ?the word of the Lord came to? The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying?
I have heard several of the Benny Hinn and other attempt to use the same language. However, how many of the self proclaimed prophets or prophetess has spoken prophecy that came true.
I had to do some research ?
Orlando Christian Center, Dec. 31st, 1989.
"The Spirit tells me - Fidel Castro will die - in the 90's. Oooh my! Some will try to kill him and they will not succeed. But there will come a change in his physical health, and he will not stay in power, and Cuba will be visited of God."
- Benny Hinn.
Castro, is still living and in power in Cuba.
Orlando Christian Center, Dec. 31st, 1989.
"The Lord also tells me to tell you in the mid 90's, about '94-'95, no later than that, God will destroy the homosexual community of America. [audience applauds] But He will not destroy it - with what many minds have thought Him to be, He will destroy it with fire. And many will turn and be saved, and many will rebel and be destroyed."
- Benny Hinn
Those that are practicing homosexuality are still living.
Note that Benny Hinn claimed that God revealed the above prophecies to him. Now either God has erred, or Benny Hinn invented these prophecies and he never heard from God. The truth should be obvious - Benny Hinn does not hear from God, he is without doubt a false prophet
April 21st, 2000 - This Is Your Day
"You know, yesterday on the program I was telling you and the audience here that Ruth Heflin, the prophetess, had sent me a word from the Lord, where she said that the Lord had spoken to her clearly, that, a, for me to prepare myself, for the Lord is going to visibly appear, on the platform, in one of our crusades. I pray it'll happen in every crusade. But I have a feeling, I am just telling you honestly, I have even told some of our staff, when I go to Kenya, I am going to Kenya in just a few days from now, a million people will be in Kenya, Nairobi. I feel in my being it is going to happen there. So pray for us as we go to Kenya. I pray it will happen tonight, at the good Friday service in Nashville. I pray it will happen in every crusade."
- Benny Hinn
-
- Listen to the audio?s
-
http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/tbn.htm
Dr H..
Active Member
So you dont think that God is performing healing miracles through the laying on of hands? So are you believing that God is performing miracles through someone's words? That the messenger of God is speaking the word and the people are becoming healed? Cause you know sometimes the afflicted person do not have enough faith to speak the words and believe themselves.
==
Through the laying on of hands, No
Through someone's word, I beleive such as individuals like yourself can and often does encourage and strenghten individuals faith, by the preaching of the word. However, I do not beleive that a person "today" can say "be healed pick up your bed and walk" and it will happen. Reading, the stories Jesus said it was your faith.
And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague - Mt. 5:34
And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way. - Mt. 10:34
As Jesus healed, He also mentions that it was the person faith and not the touching of the garment.
"afflicted person do not have enough faith to speak the words and believe themselves"
Is that based on God's standards or mans? God know the hard, where man can only see the outside.
Do you beleive Hinn and others can raise the dead. They continue to use smoke and mirrors to "heal" If they are true apostles or prophets etc, then they should be able to raise the dead.
==
Through the laying on of hands, No
Through someone's word, I beleive such as individuals like yourself can and often does encourage and strenghten individuals faith, by the preaching of the word. However, I do not beleive that a person "today" can say "be healed pick up your bed and walk" and it will happen. Reading, the stories Jesus said it was your faith.
And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague - Mt. 5:34
And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way. - Mt. 10:34
As Jesus healed, He also mentions that it was the person faith and not the touching of the garment.
"afflicted person do not have enough faith to speak the words and believe themselves"
Is that based on God's standards or mans? God know the hard, where man can only see the outside.
Do you beleive Hinn and others can raise the dead. They continue to use smoke and mirrors to "heal" If they are true apostles or prophets etc, then they should be able to raise the dead.
Dr H..
Active Member
Re: Hinn, is a fake and
"You are gonna run your pressure up....... " :hat:
No, just trying to help people understand that Hinn and other's are crooks and they are leading folks on a fast train to hell. When people start reading [scratch that] when they start studying the bible, God will open up the word to them. If people understood the bible, fakes like Hinn and others will be put out of business.
In fact, as I challenged Dwayne several months ago, I challenge him to speak in tongues {glossa}.
I will challenge Hinn and other's to go to VANDY and heal a child with terminal cancer or give sight to a blind man.
Yes, those folks are being paid and some are emotionally fainting, similiar to what happens at the funeral of a love one.
"You are gonna run your pressure up....... " :hat:
No, just trying to help people understand that Hinn and other's are crooks and they are leading folks on a fast train to hell. When people start reading [scratch that] when they start studying the bible, God will open up the word to them. If people understood the bible, fakes like Hinn and others will be put out of business.
In fact, as I challenged Dwayne several months ago, I challenge him to speak in tongues {glossa}.
I will challenge Hinn and other's to go to VANDY and heal a child with terminal cancer or give sight to a blind man.
Yes, those folks are being paid and some are emotionally fainting, similiar to what happens at the funeral of a love one.
Blacknbengal
Well-Known Member
Re: Hinn, is a fake and
:lol:
Did anyone challenge Saul when he was found prophesying among the prophets? No. When the Spirit filled him, he just started prophesying.
Dr H.. said:
:lol:Did anyone challenge Saul when he was found prophesying among the prophets? No. When the Spirit filled him, he just started prophesying.
docmump
The Arch Nemesis
Re: Hinn, is a fake and
As I said in the other thread... Let God handle Hinn. It is not our responsibility to critique him. As long as we study and know the word of God for ourselves, God will show us the path.
Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, lean not to your own understanding. In all thy ways follow him, and he shall direct your path.
As I said in the other thread... Let God handle Hinn. It is not our responsibility to critique him. As long as we study and know the word of God for ourselves, God will show us the path.
Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, lean not to your own understanding. In all thy ways follow him, and he shall direct your path.
dacontinent
Preacher
Well...if you are going to start down the above path to make your argument, then you must concede that in the context 1 Corinthians prophecy, like tongues, is a a gift given by the Spirit. 13:8 says that all of these gifts will cease. If that is true, then why - based on your position - did tongues cease after John finished Revelation but prophecy did not?Dr H.. said:
Dio?kete te?n ag?peen zeelo?te d? t? Pneumatik? m?llon d? h?na profeete?eete Ho g?r lalo?n glo?ssee ouk anthro?pois lale? all? Theo? oude?s g?r ako?ei Pne?mati d? lale? muste?ria
The text clearly says that this glo?ssee is not known to men. This is not a foreign language as in a dialect spoken conversationally for humans to talk with each other. You will agree that dial?ktoo and glo?ssee are different.
Blacknbengal
Well-Known Member
Good points.dacontinent said:
Blacknbengal
Well-Known Member
Re: Hinn, is a fake and
It's not a switch that can be turned on or off.Blacknbengal said:
Did anyone challenge Saul when he was found prophesying among the prophets? No. When the Spirit filled him, he just started prophesying.
Seeing Spots
Joyful Woman!
Re: Hinn, is a fake and
I agree that Benny Hinn is a fake. My chief problem with him is when he says HE HAS HEALED SOMEONE...okay, why isn't he acknowledging the real power of the healing.
BTW, I read the other thread, but opted to express my opinion here.
I agree that Benny Hinn is a fake. My chief problem with him is when he says HE HAS HEALED SOMEONE...okay, why isn't he acknowledging the real power of the healing.
BTW, I read the other thread, but opted to express my opinion here.