A Journey from Atheism to Christianity

[Tiger1]

A Journey from Atheism to Christianity
August 6, 2010

Holly Ordway was a highly educated atheist who thought Christianity was “a historical curiosity†or “a blemish on modern civilization,†or both.

“Smart people don’t become Christians,†she thought, according to Biola University.

Her worldview, however, began to change at age 31. She recounts her journey from atheism to Christianity in the recently released Not God’s Type: A Rational Academic Finds a Radical Faith.

“It is no light matter to meet God after having denied Him all one’s life,†she writes in the book. “Coming to Him was only the beginning. I can point to a day and time and place of my conversion, and yet since then I have come to understand that He calls me to a fresh conversion every day.â€

Ordway, a professor of English and literature at a San Diego-area community college, wasn’t raised in any religious faith. She never said a prayer in her life and she never went to a church service. Her exposure to Christianity while growing up was minimal and her few encounters with Christians involved televangelists or hellfire and damnation preachers.

“Religion seemed like a story that people told themselves, and I had no evidence to the contrary,†she said in an interview with Biola University, where she is currently studying for her second MA, in Christian Apologetics.

http://www.christianpost.com/articl...hristianity-really-does-make-sense/index.html

 

[JayRob]

First of all, the article claims that the woman is highly educated? How do I know this? How does anyone know this? That's a red herring from the start by the author to immediately try and sway the reader's opinion that the woman has researched and read literature from several sources before making a decision.

Second, it's interesting that this person only studied Christianity. Nowhere in the article did the author say that this person studied the history of religion in it's entirety or that she studied other religions. If she hadn't how does she honestly know that HER newfound religion has the true god? That's it, she doesn't.

If she had studied the history of religions, she would've found glaring similarities between Christianity and dozens and dozens of other religions that preceded it. The same characters, same stories, same context, but with different names and different titles.

The article is very biased and lacks objectivity in it's simplest form. It's no different than a person claiming conversion from atheism to Hinduism, while only studying Hinduism. All religions are basically the same at the core, however it's unfortunate that this "educated" person missed out on this bit of knowledge by studying only one religion.

 

[Tiger1]

First of all, the article claims that the woman is highly educated? How do I know this? How does anyone know this? That's a red herring from the start by the author to immediately try and sway the reader's opinion that the woman has researched and read literature from several sources before making a decision.

Second, it's interesting that this person only studied Christianity. Nowhere in the article did the author say that this person studied the history of religion in it's entirety or that she studied other religions. If she hadn't how does she honestly know that HER newfound religion has the true god? That's it, she doesn't.

If she had studied the history of religions, she would've found glaring similarities between Christianity and dozens and dozens of other religions that preceded it. The same characters, same stories, same context, but with different names and different titles.

The article is very biased and lacks objectivity in it's simplest form. It's no different than a person claiming conversion from atheism to Hinduism, while only studying Hinduism. All religions are basically the same at the core, however it's unfortunate that this "educated" person missed out on this bit of knowledge by studying only one religion.

Please feel free to send her an email regarding some of your concerns. I really think she would be more than welcome to a open discussion and conversation.
--

Holly Ordway goodreads author profile

urlhttp://www.goodreads.com/hollyordway

bornAugust 31, 1974 in Honolulu, HI

genderfemale

websitehttp://www.hieropraxis.com

genreReligion & Spirituality, Nonfiction, Biographies & Memoirs

about this author

Holly Ordway earned her M.A. in English from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, and her Ph.D. in English from the University of Massachusetts Amherst (where she focused on Victorian literature, the Arthurian legends, the teaching of writing, and the fantasy genre). Ordway is now a professor of English and literature at a San Diego-area community college.

Once hostile to Christianity, she became convinced of God’s existence and the truth of Christianity through rational argument and evidence. In her writing she explores intellectual questions about Christianity, as well as the experience of coming to faith, living the Christian life, and the beauty of art and literature.

In addition to her teaching and writing, Ordway is a lay reader, acolyte, and the parish librarian at her church, St. Michael’s by-the-Sea, and a competitive sabre fencer.

Her favorite authors are C.S. Lewis and Gerard Manley Hopkins, and she considers a really good cup of coffee to be one of life’s simple pleasures.

http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/3393590.Holly_Ordway

http://www.conversantlife.com/blogs/holly+ordway

 

[JayRob]

Please feel free to send her an email regarding some of your concerns. I really think she would be more than welcome to a open discussion and conversation.
--

Holly Ordway goodreads author profile

urlhttp://www.goodreads.com/hollyordway

bornAugust 31, 1974 in Honolulu, HI

genderfemale

websitehttp://www.hieropraxis.com

genreReligion & Spirituality, Nonfiction, Biographies & Memoirs

about this author

Holly Ordway earned her M.A. in English from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, and her Ph.D. in English from the University of Massachusetts Amherst (where she focused on Victorian literature, the Arthurian legends, the teaching of writing, and the fantasy genre). Ordway is now a professor of English and literature at a San Diego-area community college.

Once hostile to Christianity, she became convinced of God’s existence and the truth of Christianity through rational argument and evidence. In her writing she explores intellectual questions about Christianity, as well as the experience of coming to faith, living the Christian life, and the beauty of art and literature.

In addition to her teaching and writing, Ordway is a lay reader, acolyte, and the parish librarian at her church, St. Michael’s by-the-Sea, and a competitive sabre fencer.

Her favorite authors are C.S. Lewis and Gerard Manley Hopkins, and she considers a really good cup of coffee to be one of life’s simple pleasures.

http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/3393590.Holly_Ordway

http://www.conversantlife.com/blogs/holly+ordway

Her problem is not mine. Maybe you'd want to send her over to the Prayer Forum at tspnsports.com. If she hasn't studied the history of religion, I doubt if I'll learn anything different from her than I haven't already heard from others who haven't done extensive research.

 

[dacontinent]

Thanks for the pointer, Tiger1. Great stuff.

 

[Dr H..]

JR

Negative, you need to send her an e-mail. You were the one questioning her level of education. Did you not?

I reckon Tiger1 answered you question.

 

[JayRob]

JR

Negative, you need to send her an e-mail. You were the one questioning her level of education. Did you not?

I reckon Tiger1 answered you question.

I was merely making a statement on a public forum. Makes me no difference what her education level nor religious affiliation is. They're all derived from the same sources anyhow. Even you can't refute that.

 

[Dr H..]

First of all, the article claims that the woman is highly educated? How do I know this? How does anyone know this?

It's apparent you had questions about her levelof education, did you not!

You claimed “said” to be a scientist, but that was changed after I asked you what your field of study was. Then you claimed to be a researcher, what is your area of expertise?

 

[JayRob]

It's apparent you had questions about her levelof education, did you not!

You claimed “said” to be a scientist, but that was changed after I asked you what your field of study was. Then you claimed to be a researcher, what is your area of expertise?

Out of the thousands of threads posted by myself, show me one post where I claimed to be a scientist.

 

[Dr H..]

JR

As I previously said, I started a post titled "JR". I asked you a question and "you" stated that you were a scientist. Later, you changed to a researcher.

Do you remember to topic "JR", the topic has been deleted. Ok, what is your area of concentration as a researcher?

 

[JayRob]

JR

As I previously said, I started a post titled "JR". I asked you a question and "you" stated that you were a scientist. Later, you changed to a researcher.

Do you remember to topic "JR", the topic has been deleted. Ok, what is your area of concentration as a researcher?

Please post my quote claiming to be a scientist. If not, that means you've been misquoting me.....again.

 

[Blacknbengal]

A Journey from Atheism to Christianity
August 6, 2010

Holly Ordway was a highly educated atheist who thought Christianity was “a historical curiosity” or “a blemish on modern civilization,” or both.

“Smart people don’t become Christians,” she thought, according to Biola University.

Her worldview, however, began to change at age 31. She recounts her journey from atheism to Christianity in the recently released Not God’s Type: A Rational Academic Finds a Radical Faith.

“It is no light matter to meet God after having denied Him all one’s life,” she writes in the book. “Coming to Him was only the beginning. I can point to a day and time and place of my conversion, and yet since then I have come to understand that He calls me to a fresh conversion every day.”

Ordway, a professor of English and literature at a San Diego-area community college, wasn’t raised in any religious faith. She never said a prayer in her life and she never went to a church service. Her exposure to Christianity while growing up was minimal and her few encounters with Christians involved televangelists or hellfire and damnation preachers.

“Religion seemed like a story that people told themselves, and I had no evidence to the contrary,” she said in an interview with Biola University, where she is currently studying for her second MA, in Christian Apologetics.

http://www.christianpost.com/articl...hristianity-really-does-make-sense/index.html

:tup:

 

[Dr H..]

JR

Honestly, you need to “get a life” and stop worrying or questioning what others believe or practice. Considering you do not believe in Christianity, God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit or the Scriptures, that you right.

Who are you to question what others practice and believe.

 

[JayRob]

JR

Honestly, you need to “get a life” and stop worrying or questioning what others believe or practice. Considering you do not believe in Christianity, God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit or the Scriptures, that you right.

Who are you to question what others practice and believe.

So what I'm hearing is that I need to "get a life" because I LOVE seeking the truth and bringing it to light? I can bet that if I had agreed with you on your beliefs about Christianity, you would've never posted the above. To me, that's very hypocritical.

I have the free moral right to question anything just as anyone else. It's not within your power to try and take that away, no matter how much you might not like what I post. If it's the truth, why would you not want me to post it and reveal it, regardless how much it hurts.

If something is on a public forum and you have reason to believe it's not accurate, it's your right to question that posting. I have that same right, whether you like it or not. You have that same right whether I like it or not. The truth should trump everything else, or at least it's supposed to.

Now please post where I said that I was a scientist.

 

[SUtrp96]

Why is dude coming off as jealous because someone went from being an atheist to a Christian?

 

[JayRob]

Dude, you have your reasons for believing what you do and I have mine. When this woman claimed in the article that Christianity is the standard for morality, I have the right to say that she's very much mistaken. She's not even close to being right.

For instance, in Deuteronomy, Moses gave Israelite fathers permission to marry their raped daughter to her rapist for 50 shekels. Deuteronomy 22:28-39----If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

The Jesus figure said in Mark 5:17, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them"?

These verses are part of Christianity because the Jesus figure said he came not to destroy the law but to fulfill. This was one of the laws, so Christians can't deny it.

Would YOU do something like this? Is it moral for fathers to sell their daughters to her rapist? Would you sell your daughter to her rapist as Moses recommended?

This is where I disagree with this woman who claimed in the article that Christianity explains morality.

 

[dacontinent]

...The Jesus figure said in Mark 5:17, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them"?

These verses are part of Christianity because the Jesus figure said he came not to destroy the law but to fulfill. This was one of the laws, so Christians can't deny it...

Which shows us that you do not understand what "the Law or the Prophets" meant. People perish because of ignorance.

 

[Dr H..]

JR

What is the truth, I direct your attention to John 8:31-32 “It is what it is” the truth. You are acting like a disgruntle individual who has failed in life. Because of your failures, you are attacking everyone else, who disagree with you. As I have suggested before, if you have something better than Christianity [live it in your own world]. We cannot help if things are going wrong in your life, perhaps if you stop fighting against God, your life would improve.

Do you understand Mark 5:17, apparently NOT. JR what are you “crowing about” There is a difference between the Law and Christianity. Do you understand that Jesus lived during the OT / Law?

What is the standard for morality?

Is it Atheism, Hinduism, Buddhist, Islam or is it individuals doing what’s right [in their eyes]. Christianity, is based on the standards of God, not man. It is God, and He alone that decides what is right and wrong. Without God there could be no sense of right and wrong. Ok, you, yes you live by the standards of God and do not lie and say that you do not.

 

[JayRob]

Which shows us that you do not understand what "the Law or the Prophets" meant. People perish because of ignorance.

If you think I don't know, why don't you enlighten. The fact of the matter is that it was a command from Moses, who was a "prophet".

There's always an excuse to excuse stupid stuff mentioned in the bible. It never fails. When verses don't make sense, create a convenient "escape clause" to distance oneself from the verses is what usually occurs.

That same prophet also said that, "not one jot or tittle will pass away til ALL be fulfilled". Has ALL been fulfilled? If not, then Moses sayings are still in effect no matter how one wants to distance himself from nonsense such as selling one's daughter to her rapist.

Why would a "holy and moral" person THINK this, much less say it in the first place? Even if the verses are done away, why would a person be so evil and callous against women to even think to make such a statement, suggestion or command?

This command alone is the height of lunacy and evil. And to think that these verses were inspired TO Moses by the Old Testament god.....that women should marry their rapist?! The SAME god who supposedly became Jesus?! All I can say is WOW!!!

 

[JayRob]

JR

What is the truth, I direct your attention to John 8:31-32 “It is what it isâ€￾ the truth. You are acting like a disgruntle individual who has failed in life. Because of your failures, you are attacking everyone else, who disagree with you. As I have suggested before, if you have something better than Christianity [live it in your own world]. We cannot help if things are going wrong in your life, perhaps if you stop fighting against God, your life would improve.

Do you understand Mark 5:17, apparently NOT. JR what are you “crowing aboutâ€￾ There is a difference between the Law and Christianity. Do you understand that Jesus lived during the OT / Law?

What is the standard for morality?

Is it Atheism, Hinduism, Buddhist, Islam or is it individuals doing what’s right [in their eyes]. Christianity, is based on the standards of God, not man. It is God, and He alone that decides what is right and wrong. Without God there could be no sense of right and wrong. Ok, you, yes you live by the standards of God and do not lie and say that you do not.

Dr. H, if something is in error, would you want it brought to your attention, regardless who brings it? I would hope so.

The woman clearly stated in the article that Christianity set the standard for morality. She didn't bother to check out any other religion or philosophy. I merely pointed this out about her article because it was a public article. If she didn't want the article critiqued, she should've never made it public. I wasn't attacking anyone on this forum. I think you know this already.

The fact of the matter is that the Jesus figure supposedly stated that not one jot or tittle would pass away til ALL......ALL is fulfilled.
Has ALL been fulfilled? Have ALL the prophecies been fulfilled? If not, then EVERY word in your bible is still in effect.

Dr. H, you can't run away from this no matter how hard you try. Would you sell your daughter to her rapist as Moses said?
Would you kill off the babies, children, men, the women weren't virgins, but keep the virgins for yourself just as Moses ordered Israelite men to do? Is this part of a standard for morality? According to your bible it is. I emphatically say it's not.

One more thing...."where did I say I was a scientist?"

 

[Dr H..]

What in the world are you talking about, first of all “what you quoted is not Mark 5:17”
Then the people began to plead with Jesus to leave their region. Mark 5:17

You are quoting from Matthew 5:17 at least get the scripture “right” Dude read the doggone scripture, the “neither Law nor Prophets are part of Christianity and you said that you are a “Researcher” Do your research, below is how you research the scriptures, just enough to make you thing, if I gave you to much, it would blow your mind.

Matthew 5:17 is simple to understand:

Jesus' was explaining His view of the Old Testament 5:17-20, why, because, some of the Jews had already concluded that Jesus was a radical who was discarding the teachings of the Old Testament, their law. He was prepared them for the absurdity between His teaching and their leaders' interpretations of the law by explaining His relationship to the Old Testament. He was attempting to teach the Jew the difference in from traditional thinking of the Law and Prophets. His comments shows that he seeks a standard that looks at the law from an internal, not an external, perspective."

Understand the terms "the Law" and "the Prophets" refer to two of the three major divisions of the Hebrew Bible, [FYI] the third being "the Psalms" (Luke 24:44).

"The Law and the Prophets" was the most universal way Jews referred to the Old Testament in Jesus' day ( 7:12; 11:13; 22:40; Luke 16:16; John 1:45; Acts 13:15; 28:23; Rom. 3:21).

In 7:12 Jesus finished the subject with the same phrase. The phrase "the Law and the Prophets" forms another inclusion [binds its parts together / relationship] within the body of the Sermon on the Mount and identifies the main subject that it encloses.

Question:, Was Jesus referring to Himself when He said, "I came . . . to fulfill," or was he referring to His teaching? Did He fulfill the law or did His teaching fulfill it?

The contrast is "to abolish" the law, Jesus meant His teaching fulfilled the law. He did not intend that what He taught the people would replace the teaching of the Old Testament but fulfill (Gr. pleroo) it completely.

Note: Jesus did fulfill Old Testament prophecy about Messiah, the issue seems to be His teaching. But, some conclude Jesus meant that He came to fulfill (keep) the moral law (the Ten Commandments) but that He abolished Israel's civil and ceremonial laws.

What is Jesus teaching that He authenticated the Old Testament as the inspired Word of God? He wanted His hearers to understand that what He taught them in no way contradicted Old Testament Revelation.

"He disregarded the oral tradition, which they [the Pharisees] held to be equal in authority to the written Law;

"do you understand 'fulfilling (plerosai) the Law.' He does not mean taking the written Law as it stands, and literally obeying it.

This has nothing to do with your comment!

 

[Dr H..]

The woman clearly stated in the article that Christianity set the standard for morality. She didn't bother to check out any other religion or philosophy.

How do you know that, did she state that in the article? In the beginning was she not an Atheist, you are not born with that belief, she must have read or been indoctrinate whit that particular belief from another source.
Has ALL been fulfilled? Have ALL the prophecies been fulfilled? If not, then EVERY word in your bible is still in effect.
WOW such a stupid statement, the Law and Prophets (Individuals) has nothing to do with Christianity.

You know as well as I do and others that the "Subject JR" was deleated. And it was within that topic you said that you were a scientist. And I asked you what type of scientist, do you recall me asking you that particular question or the "Subject JR"

 

[JayRob]

You are quoting from Matthew 5:17 at least get the scripture “right” Dude read the doggone scripture, the “neither Law nor Prophets are part of Christianity and you said that you are a “Researcher” Do your research, below is how you research the scriptures, just enough to make you thing, if I gave you to much, it would blow your mind.

Dude, the average person shouldn't need a scripture for that verse in the first place. And for you to claim that the law and prophets are NOT part of the New Testament is contradicting Paul in Eph. 2:20 where it says, “....are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ the messiah being the chief cornerstone;” (Eph. 2:20 KJV).
Seems you need to do your research.

Matthew 5:17 is simple to understand:

Jesus' was explaining His view of the Old Testament 5:17-20, why, because, some of the Jews had already concluded that Jesus was a radical who was discarding the teachings of the Old Testament, their law. He was prepared them for the absurdity between His teaching and their leaders' interpretations of the law by explaining His relationship to the Old Testament. He was attempting to teach the Jew the difference in from traditional thinking of the Law and Prophets. His comments shows that he seeks a standard that looks at the law from an internal, not an external, perspective."

Understand the terms "the Law" and "the Prophets" refer to two of the three major divisions of the Hebrew Bible, [FYI] the third being "the Psalms" (Luke 24:44).

"The Law and the Prophets" was the most universal way Jews referred to the Old Testament in Jesus' day ( 7:12; 11:13; 22:40; Luke 16:16; John 1:45; Acts 13:15; 28:23; Rom. 3:21).

In 7:12 Jesus finished the subject with the same phrase. The phrase "the Law and the Prophets" forms another inclusion [binds its parts together / relationship] within the body of the Sermon on the Mount and identifies the main subject that it encloses.

Where did this Jesus figure quote from? He quoted from the Old Testament. Come on Dr. H., it's not that difficult.

Question:, Was Jesus referring to Himself when He said, "I came . . . to fulfill," or was he referring to His teaching? Did He fulfill the law or did His teaching fulfill it?

The contrast is "to abolish" the law, Jesus meant His teaching fulfilled the law. He did not intend that what He taught the people would replace the teaching of the Old Testament but fulfill (Gr. pleroo) it completely.

Note: Jesus did fulfill Old Testament prophecy about Messiah, the issue seems to be His teaching. But, some conclude Jesus meant that He came to fulfill (keep) the moral law (the Ten Commandments) but that He abolished Israel's civil and ceremonial laws.

What is Jesus teaching that He authenticated the Old Testament as the inspired Word of God? He wanted His hearers to understand that what He taught them in no way contradicted Old Testament Revelation.

"He disregarded the oral tradition, which they [the Pharisees] held to be equal in authority to the written Law;

"do you understand 'fulfilling (plerosai) the Law.' He does not mean taking the written Law as it stands, and literally obeying it.

Who else was he talking about, especially after saying, "I".
As far as some oral condition, I was referring to Moses laws that were inspired by this same Jesus figure who was supposed to be in heaven at the time. Did Jesus inspire Moses to write in the OT? If so, then HE inspired fathers to sell their daughters to their rapist for a lifetime of marriage. Even you can't deny this.

 

[JayRob]

How do you know that, did she state that in the article?

She didn't mention another religion. If you would've read the entire article, you would know this.

In the beginning was she not an Atheist, you are not born with that belief, she must have read or been indoctrinate whit that particular belief from another source.

How do you know people are not born atheists? Where's your evidence and where's your evidence that people are born Christians? LOL!!

Has ALL been fulfilled? Have ALL the prophecies been fulfilled? If not, then EVERY word in your bible is still in effect.
WOW such a stupid statement, the Law and Prophets (Individuals) has nothing to do with Christianity.

Again, you contradict Paul who says that the NT is built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets in Eph. 2:20. Even an unbeliever like myself know that much. Glad I could help though.
In contradiction to that verse is

You know as well as I do and others that the "Subject JR" was deleated. And it was within that topic you said that you were a scientist. And I asked you what type of scientist, do you recall me asking you that particular question or the "Subject JR".

That's not true at all. If I said it, you can still find it by pulling up all of my comments under my public profile on or around the date you made your posts. Click on JayRob, then click on comments. You'll have access to ALL of my comments.

Now that you know how to find all of my comments, again I challenge you to post where I claimed to be a scientist. Just more disinformation without having anything to support it. I've gotten used to it though, so it's no big deal, but your credibility is getting less and less credible.

 

[dacontinent]

If you think I don't know, why don't you enlighten. The fact of the matter is that it was a command from Moses, who was a "prophet".
...

The law was given by God and presented by Moses. It contained 10 commandments. I am sure you know them. He did not come to fulfill all of the contrivances since then.

The point to the prophets speaks to what the prophets had to say about Him. He has fulfilled them all relative to His earthly life and death, giving us great confidence that he will do the same for those regarding His return.

I hope this helps you to see a little more clearly.