2002 Division I-AA Playoff Schedule


BLUEBENGAL

Senior Member
http://espn.go.com/ncf/s/playoffs02.html
2002 Division I-AA College football playoff schedule

Division I-AA

First Round
Saturday, Nov. 30
Montana State (7-5) at McNeese State (10-1), TBA
Northwestern State (9-3) at Monatana (10-2), TBA
Furman (8-3) at Villanova (9-3), TBA
Fordham (9-2) at Northeastern (10-2), TBA
Eastern Illinois (8-3) at Western Illinois (10-1), TBA
Murray State (7-4) at Western Kentucky (8-3), TBA
Maine (10-2) at Appalachian State (8-3), TBA
Bethune-Cookman (11-1) at Georgia Southern (9-2), TBA

Quarterfinals
Saturday, Dec. 7
Monatana State-McNeese State winner vs. Northwestern
State-Monatana winner, TBA
Furman-Villanova winner vs. Fordham-Northeastern winner, TBA
Eastern Illinois-Western Illinois winner vs. Murray
State-Western Kentucky winner, TBA
Maine-Appalachian State winner vs. Bethune-Cookman-Georgia
Southern winner, TBA

Semifinals
Saturday, Dec. 14
TBA

Championship
At Finley Stadium/Davenport Field (Chattanooga, Tenn.)
Friday, Dec. 20
Semifinal winners, 6:30 p.m.
 
Observation:

In seven circumstances, the team with the best record gets the home game.

Only one white school (Maine) has to travel to the home of a team with a lesser win record.

The only black school (Bethune-Cookman) has to go to the home of a team with a lesser win record.

This is the reason why black schools would be better off creating championship games or post-season bowl games. This is a raw deal for Bethune-Cookman.
 



Originally posted by Oracle
Observation:
...
The only black school (Bethune-Cookman) has to go to the home of a team with a lesser win record.

This is the reason why black schools would be better off creating championship games or post-season bowl games. This is a raw deal for Bethune-Cookman.

From a financial perspective, you might be correct. In terms of national recognition and respect, I am certain that you are wrong.

I don't know how pairings are done, but regions seem to be a factor - which makes sense to me for 1-AA and getting fan support. If that is the case, then the Georgia Southern (ranked #2)/Bethune-Cookman(#10) matchup is the proper one. So, if you make that matchup and look at the polls, Georgian Southern would get the home game.

Now, if you want to argue about the rankings... :confused:
 
Ga. Southern gets the nod for home field because they are ranked higher. I don't believe its a HBCU thing. Think about it, despite their record, Ga. Southern has been highly ranked all year. Their losses have come against ranked teams. BCC started the season unranked and had to climb up the polls. Everything is not about black and white, now had that been Grambling then thats another story.
 
Originally posted by Oracle
Observation:

In seven circumstances, the team with the best record gets the home game.

Only one white school (Maine) has to travel to the home of a team with a lesser win record.

The only black school (Bethune-Cookman) has to go to the home of a team with a lesser win record.

This is the reason why black schools would be better off creating championship games or post-season bowl games. This is a raw deal for Bethune-Cookman.

Man, you are jumping to conclusions. If you look at the polls, you will see why BCC is traveling. If you won't to argue something, argue the polls. I remember in '95 or '96 when we were ranked #8 and William and Mary #9 before the last game of the season. We both won our games, but they flipped flop us in the polls so William and Mary didn't have to come to Jackson. Imagine one of the oldest colleges in America coming to play an HBCU. Those pollsters can go to hell.:redhot:
 
Originally posted by Blue Bengal


Man, you are jumping to conclusions

What conclusion did I jump to? I simply pointed what team was going where, which was a factual statement. You can supply your own explanation for why the teams are going where they are going. I just simply pointed out that black schools are better off scheduling post-season games between themselves.
 
I don't know how the parings are made but my homies from Northwestern St has to travel to Montana while Montana St travels to McNeese. Go figure...
 
Everything is not always about black and white

Damn,

just look at the polls for the whole season. I can't comment on the William & Mary thing, but in this situation the polls speak for themselves. Another thing to take into conclusion. Look at these other schools schedules and you will see that a lot of them schedule ranked non-conference opponents to help a thing called "strength of schedule" . Until we as hbcu's stop trying to isolate ourselves, we will always be making this arguement.


I have to give credit to Doug and those guys down there, unlike the rest of us they realize that you have to go and play real competition to get national recognitition.

When these guys make the playoff schedule, they look at that. They look at whether or not you are a legit 11-1 team or if you have that record just because you beat up on Paul Quinn and Langston.

On top of that the SWAC doesn't help because we won't fight for the automatic birth and we keep ourselves out of it.

So until we decide to send somebody, we shouldn't say squat about it. Of course we have the SCG to make money off of.
 
Here's an opinion on the situation that I found interested. It's long but bare with it. Notice what he said about the SWAC at the end.

The Play-off Selections...


Our Take: pete's

Needless to say, I have received a great deal of comments on our contention, that no one conference should receive four (4) play-off bids. This was actually quite gratifying to know that this many people look at the site enough to care about an opinion. However, this is only 1 man?s (myself) opinion. Unlike other I-AA pundits, I am not egotistical enough to think that my words mean much to anyone else & have little actual impact on I-AA football. This topic is very important to me. Most people directly involved in I-AA (fans and media alike) have habits of seeing ignorance and/or irrelevance as virtues. So, as not to be misconstrued as one of these, I will provide a more deep explanation of my opinion.

I) There seems to be some consensus that I am against the Southern Conference, as I am against four teams being granted a bid from any single conference... so let's get the facts straight... I am NOT against the SoCon receiving a fourth selection ... I AM AGAINST "ANY" CONFERENCE RECEIVING A FOURTH SELECTION. Any other conference fan would say the same thing if it was happening to them.

II) I do not think the upper-portion of the SoCon is a weaker Conference than any other, obviously they have 4 clubs in our top-20. Likewise, I do not feel that the conference, overall, is any more superior than several others. It is not that the SoCon is being punished for being "superior". It is the simple fact that no SoCon team "took charge" of their conference. If you are being punished ... it is YOUR OWN fault ... no one else's. Should you be rewarded for weaker bottom half than many other conferences? It can be seen both ways.

II) Many readers feel that this is a temporary situation and need only occur because this year's I-AA performance is so weak. Well, guess what ... this year is far from unique ... so any decisions of this magnitude will impact the entire division, it's regions and conferences, for years to come. Don't be so blind as to think that the option of taking 4 teams will not surface every year at some point.

III) First and foremost ? I consider the top-16 clubs in Pete?s Power Poll, to be the top-16 clubs in the land and THEY should be the play-off selections. This would include ALL four (4) of the top clubs in the SoCon. However, there are rules in place when making play-off choices; thus we have to follow them with our list. Now other Indexes and/or Polls try to predict the play-off clubs, based on accuracy against the committee?s choices. What purpose does that serve the non-betting man? Furthermore, do we honestly think that I-AA is so popular that we have everyone in Vegas awaiting million$ on selection day? Who is kidding whom? Pete's has it's own poll ? our poll, our choices and who cares about how close they are to the actual NCAA selection committee?s picks? It does not take an incredibly high IQ to figure out the teams that "will" make the play-off ? it is far more difficult to select the teams that "should" be in the play-off and that is what we try to do here at Pete?s. PS: for those of you that wish to know how to be 90% accurate in I-AA play-off selection picks:

1. Traditionally ? the conferences each receive a fairly set # of selections. This is the one rule that all pundits are supposed to hold secret ? the one that make them look brilliant. Here is the breakdown ? it is by region and conference. Here are the base numbers:

a. A-10 = 11 members, 2 selections.
b. Big Sky = 8 members, 2 selections.
c. Gateway = 8 members, 2 selections.
d. MEAC = 9 members, 2 selections.
e. Ohio Valley = 7 members, 2 selections.
f. Patriot = 8 members, 2 selections.
g. Southern = 9 members, 2 selections.
h. Southland = 7 members, 2 selections.

As you can see, everything is perfect. The idea is that a conference winner and runner-up from each conference are in a play-off. You see; if one made their selections from this method, they would be 87.50% correct. You are brilliant!!!! However, the two larger conferences (A-10 & SoCon) argued they have a right to an additional selection. So, the committee has to decide which conferences will lose a selection, in order to allow another ... another. They will always start with what they presume to be the weaker conferences. The A-10 will always take one of the Patriot Leagues selections. The SoCon does not have a set conference pick it can "steal" ? thus the controversy begins.

Let?s look at the entire division we call I-AA. The NCAA divides the country into 4 regions ? East, Central, South and West. This is important, as it determines which teams will play which other teams in the play-off. Now, within these regions, there are also conferences. The East has, automatic bid, play-off 2 conferences within it (the A-10 and the Patriot League). The Central also has 2, automatic bid, play-off conferences within it (the Gateway and the Ohio Valley). The South "technically" has, 2 automatic bid, play-off conferences within it (the SoCon and the MEAC), while the West "technically" has 2, automatic bid, play-off conferences (in the Big Sky and Southland). Why do I say "technically"? Well, the state of Louisiana is considered part of the South region ? yet the two top teams from the Southland are from that state. Just something to think about. The committee will almost always try to have equal representation for all 4 regions, but not necessarily to each conference.

Above you see what traditionally happens when a particular conference receives a third bid. If the A-10 receives a 3rd bid, it is almost always taken from the Patriot League. This is why the PL will almost never receive more than a single bid. The same occurs in the South region, as the SoCon (when given a third bid) will almost always take it from the MEAC. Let us take this one step further, by giving the SoCon a fourth bid. Are we going to deny the MEAC a bid? No, that is why each of these conferences has guaranteed selections, so the MEAC has to have at least one. So, where does the selection committee take the 4th bid? It cannot be the A-10 ? and it cannot be the final bid from the PL, as they also have a single guaranteed bid. It will have to come from the OVC, GFC, SFC or BSC. They could deny the A-10 a third invitation and the PL a second, then give it to the SoCon. Now add one additional important factor. The NCAA Division I-AA play-off is divided in half ? theoretically Eastern US vs. Western US. Well, guess what? The West only has 2 (realistically 1.5 conferences). This is why they will almost never take from the Southland and Big Sky. As it is now, many Eastern US schools travel westward to fill the brackets ... so the more SFC & BSC teams they can select, eliminate travel and increase regional interest. In all fairness, many are saying that because Northwestern St. is from the state of LA ... it is a natural choice to drop them. Well?? The only argument the top-4 teams in the SoCon have for going "4-deep" is performance ... individual and conference. Let's look at that.

Points ... Wofford fell to VMI & won a "close one", 7-6, to S. Carolina St. ... a team that is now 6-5 and in 5th place in the MEAC. Yes, that same conference that you feel is too week to have more than 1 bid to the play-off. Delaware (6-5 with no play-off hope) beat GSU and then lost, the next week, to 2-9 SoCon member ...the Citadel. The lower portion of the SoCon beat no one (outside of the conference & DII's) while the Gateway lower half took IA E. Michigan into OT, defeated Hampton, defeated Stephen F. Austin, defeated Murray St (two different clubs), lost to IA Ball St & Eastern Illinois by less than 10-points combined. All of this, despite having losing records and hailing from a conference that clearly deserves only 2 bids and many are saying that they should lose one of these to help give the SoCon a fourth? Sorry, makes no sense at all and borders on ridiculous. Another of the weaker conference members that you want to steal a bid from (the PL) Holy Cross, took Harvard "down to the wire" and defeated Army, this despite being in the lower half of the Patriot. Say, since the Citadel and VMI both beat Wofford ... let's take them as well!

What is a possible solution? Try this.

1) Make the play-off truly regional and require 4 clubs from each region, in addition to existing conference guarantees.
2) Use the conference rankings in selecting the Automatic bids only. Seeds and "at-large" bids should only come from over-all records and existing standards.
3) In conjunction with #1 ... ALL play-off selections from a single conference, that are above a quantity of 2 ... MUST reduce the other conference (in that region) "at-large" selection quantity.
4) All independent clubs will be assigned to a region in as equal a quantity as possible. This may mean that a school has regional representation outside of their area.
5) Beyond the above ... Consider adding 8 more teams to the play-off. The #1 seed in each region will receive a "by week" and then meet the lowest seed remaining club in week 2 in a guaranteed home game. This will help to encourage maximum performance and allow for 5 clubs from each region. The purpose of this extra bid is to encourage the selection of Mid-Major candidates and assure top-seeds will advance at least 1 level and most likely two levels in the play-off. However, it will add an additional week to the play-off.

Pete?s is a place to come for ALL play-off conferences and I intend to keep it that way. I hold no animosity against any conference; this includes the Southern (SoCon). However, this does not mean I am an idiot & think the conference has anywhere near the depth of other conferences. This is why they are down in fifth in Pete?s Conference poll ? the lower clubs detract from the upper. Seems simple enough to me. Seldom, in recent times, has any team (outside of the "big-3") been even "mildly" competitive ? now when one of these "big-3" fail to take control and a 4th party (Wofford) catches up ... are we to just take them all? Take a look at something. When did the SFC become so competitive? A: when Troy St. left. When was the SoCon anything but Marshall & GSU (usually not at the same time)? A: When Marshall left. Why did the SoCon become so closely matched this year? Because GSU had a rough first few weeks ? not because the other three clubs are ?that good? that they brought themselves up to GSU's level, but rather, they took advantage of a few "off weeks" for the Eagles at the beginning of the season. Once GSU brought themselves "up-to-speed", they easily handled ASU & Furman. If they would have done this a week earlier, they would have defeated Wofford as well and the SoCon would probably not even have a third pick, let alone 4. This year ? why was the GFC so well-balanced? Because YSU & UNI fell apart. Why is it that Idaho St. and Montana St. have suddenly become so competitive in the Big Sky? Because, EWU and N. Arizona are not as strong as usual. This will always happen, when conferences and teams compete, so this is NOT an "unusual" year. Why was UNI, WKU & YSU so tightly "bunched" last year? Because WIU had a poor year. Should we keep going back 1 year at a time, or have I made my point? Want to throw a real issue into the mix? In 1990, YSU was an independent, with a record and schedule strength high enough to make the play-off. Did they deserve it? You know the answer to that one, or at least the members of the SoCon should. Will more issues occur in the future? Well, you will not recognize the OVC, GFC and BSC in a few years. We already had 1 conference drop out of the play-off and split the conference. The SWAC now has a championship that has larger game attendance and a larger TV audience than the I-AA final. How many more conferences that are "jilted" by the system will do the same? Want a hint? The A-10 splits next year into two regions ... what do you think is their next logical step? Just because I think of I-AA in it's entirety ... does not mean I hate the SoCon...or any other conference. Regionalism is crucial, as HS players need to know that they can go to any of a number of I-AA conferences and be recognized in a potential play-off situation ... and saying "I'm better than you", so I deserve more ... is a pretty poor excuse to destroy the play-off system.
 
The playoffs are based on regional matchups to try and create geographical matchups and cut down on travel costs. I believe Montana and Montana State have played as well as Northwestern St./McNeese so that is why they are playing each other. No first round matchups of season series. Also, no HBCU's bid on hosting a first round game. Due to the way ticket sales are set up and the requirements to host, most HBCU's don't place a bid. So don't blame the black/white issue.
 
We already had 1 conference drop out of the play-off and split the conference. The SWAC now has a championship that has larger game attendance and a larger TV audience than the I-AA final.


Very true... Before the SWAC Championship Game came to be, the SWAC teams were always traveling somewhere and the reason flipped back and forth from the rankings to the attendance depending on which one favored the non-SWAC school. I remember when Jackson State went to the playoffs to face some northern team and the deciding factor was attendance (so they said) and it was a known fact that JSU avg more attendance than the other team stadium held.
 
As I listen to coaches playing Div 1A, they seems to be upset with rankings as some of us who support the 1AA football Playoffs. My take on this and will always remain is that people design systems and who ever is making the rules for the designed system will automatically create a bias that will favor the designers. Our society will not allow us to get pass this issues and blacks are more honest that others.

It is by design that individuals who think like I do will never be a part of the design group, because I will fight for those issuse that affect us. I have been in too many meetings where individuals will not speak on issues that will have an impact on the majority of blacks. If you have not been there then what Oracle is saying does not make sense.

We should establish Black College Football. This is why I support the Bayou Classic and the Turkey Bowl Game. I don't care if the SWAC ever participate in the Div 1AA football playoffs as long as I have a choice to attend the BC or the Turkey Day Classic.

I hate playin games when our conference has an automatic bids.

I got just as much enjoyment out of the UAPB/AAMU Game this weekend as I would any playoff game. The only thing that I am dissappointed is that if we had not been playing I would have been in Jackson at the Soul Bowl. There was excitement in Jackson when UAPB jumped into the lead.

We spend too much time looking for someone else to respect us, when respect starts within. HBCUs Alumnus have all the respect we need and we show it ever week on our jobs, communities and faith.

Support the SCG and the Div 1AA will have to move the playoffs back if they want us to participate. As long as, Div 1A schools can do it their way we can do it our way.

Just a question: Do you think the NCAA would tell the SWAC that we have to stop playing the BC and Turkey Day Classic and start participating in the 1AA playoffs?

If the NCAA can allow Div 1A schools to have a Conference Championship game then why don't other Div 1AA schools have Conference Championship games? We could be more forward thinking at this point than other conferences. If students are kept out of class until after Jan. then why can't Div 1AA schools do the same thing. It takes just as much effort to become a starter in any program.

I still think the SWAC is the leader in BCF and will continue to set the example.
 
First let me state that BCC got screwed. I think that Appalachain State should be headed to Florida. I do not think that Maine should be on the road either. But with Montana State and Murray State winning a part of their conference titles, it hurt a lot of teams chances to get into the playoffs. But despite what I just stated, the rankings may have played a part or been an escape for the committee.

But I am not trying to get into a playoff debate right now because I would love to see an HBCU win it all. But in division 1-A football a conference has to have 12 teams in order to have a championship game. The SWAC has 11 yet they allowed our conference to have a championship game. I wonder why.

As for building Black College Football, I think a lot more can be done. The SWAC's first weekends' (or two) results spoke volumes, and I did not like what it said. I do not think that the talent level in our conference is as high as it was during the '70s. A lot of Black athletes at places like Georgia Southern, Furman and McNeese State as well as some big schools would have been at the HBCUs during the '60s and most of '70s. We need to do a better selling job of bringing some of them back home. The link below states the case better than I can. We have a lot of work to do.

HBCU Happenings: Are Coaches Looking in the Wrong Places?
 
Quote from EB:

A lot of Black athletes at places like Georgia Southern, Furman and McNeese State as well as some big schools would have been at the HBCUs during the '60s and most of '70s. We need to do a better selling job of bringing some of them back home. The link below states the case better than I can. We have a lot of work to do.

EB, my point is take what we have and move out. I don't think many of us will be where we are today if we had not developed our skills. Too many times we look past what we have and never build that necessary foundation.
 
EB,

Look at the polls, BCC did not get screwed. Everything with the polls seem pretty fair to me. BCC was the school that came up and had the great season this year. Georgia Southern is always highly ranked.
 



I see that Georgia Southern was rated higher than BCC. But I do think that App. State should be going to Florida. I have a problem with Maine going to App. State.

MD,
But if any type of student that should be at an HBCU, it is the athletes at many of these PWCs. If they were not athletes, these schools would reject them on their academics (or the lack thereof). They sure would not get any academic scholarships.

To better help our financial condition in athletics, better athletes would put a better product on the field. With a better product we would have more fans in the stands and hence more money at the gate. I think that our problem is that too many of us are satisfied with what we have now. I am not and think that we could easily do better.

Consider this. The University of Houston, whom PV beat this past Saturday, had one of the best programs in football and basketball in the '70s and until the mid '80s. Now, they just fired their football coach. They have had bad teams for over a decade. Their product on the field has not been good. For the longest time their facilities was not the best to say the least. I think that their athletic budget is seeing a lot of red. They have a lot of problems.
 
EB, the conditions that you speak of and the lack of have already been discussed and is still being discussed. If we were playing war games, we must develop a strategy to defeat the opposition.
During the 1700s and 1890s based on information I have researched, blacks were doing fairly well in our society, but then strategically the rules of society changed. Therefore, we must not allow anyone to set the tone of what is right for us, but to continued to get the best players the rules will continue to change. We can come up with all different schools of thoughts, but the bottom line is results. We can wait for the Lord or get some great minds together in a think tank and develop some plans. We didn't get to where we are by not developing a plan of action. I am somewhat familiar with the PVAM situation, but I also know that when the rules were made certain folks had the dollars to keep their system on top.

I would like to think that TSPN helped the awarding of the 63 football scholarships, by the mere fact that we bring up so many issues on this board and you can believe someone is reading and listening. I have learned a great deal from comments that provide a wealth of information. Sometimes it may not be 100% correct but the truth does come out. I am sure folks from the NCAA Office read this board everyday and get some great ideas from us, but they will never admit it.
 
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