60 million dollar stadium shut down


SUjagTILLiDIE

SUjagTILLiDIE

Well-Known Member
ALLEN, Texas -- A $60 million Texas high school stadium that got national attention for its grandeur and price tag will be shut down indefinitely 18 months after its opening, school district officials said Thursday.

Eagle Stadium in the Dallas suburb of Allen will be closed until at least June for an examination of "extensive cracking" in the concrete of the stadium's concourse, the district said in a statement Thursday. The closure will likely affect home games at the stadium this fall, the district said.

Ben Pogue of Pogue Construction, which built the stadium, told reporters that the cracks range from a quarter-inch to three-quarters of an inch wide.
http://espn.go.com/dallas/story/_/id/10528972/cracks-force-closure-60m-stadium-allen-texas
 
And they're still drilling. 20+ earthquakes in North Texas
alone last year, and they're still fracking. They're cracking platelet formations. When will the big one hit?
 



If earthquakes are the cause of the cracks from fracking, Texas would soon be adopting earthquake standards similar to California's Standards. Any time material (water, mineral, or gas) is removed from beneath the earth, a void is left that would eventually cause the ground to shift. I guess fracking companies hasn't figure out the ratio of drilling mud that is required to fill the void left by the shell gas that gets extracted or they are cutting corners to maximize profit. The United States EPA needs to develop standards to properly regulate this industry before something really bad does happen.
 
I know they are as pissed as I was when I saw that our school system spent darn near $1 million for what amounted to being a practice track(only 6 lanes).
 
JAG89 said:
If earthquakes are the cause of the cracks from fracking, Texas would soon be adopting earthquake standards similar to California's Standards. Any time material (water, mineral, or gas) is removed from beneath the earth, a void is left that would eventually cause the ground to shift. I guess fracking companies hasn't figure out the ratio of drilling mud that is required to fill the void left by the shell gas that gets extracted or they are cutting corners to maximize profit. The United States EPA needs to develop standards to properly regulate this industry before something really bad does happen.
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Not going to happen out here anytime soon man. I'm no environmentalist, but all these ppl out here see is green. Everything is an opportunity even if it potentially endangers millions. As for those epa laws, Texas is too large of an industrial giant which spoils its businesses. The state allows them to do practically anything they want.
 
This has nothing to do with fracking. There is no fracking going on within 200 miles of Allen, TX. BH you come up with some outlandish shat.
 
jag4life said:
This has nothing to do with fracking. There is no fracking going on within 200 miles of Allen, TX. BH you come up with some outlandish shat.
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Where did you get this info??? There's been a lot of questions regarding earthquakes in Azle, TX.....
 
Jaguar94 said:
Where did you get this info??? There's been a lot of questions regarding earthquakes in Azle, TX.....
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200 miles is a bit of an exaggeration, but there is no fracking in Allen, TX. And if that were the cause of this issue, other buildings and houses would have had the same issues.

This is likely just a poor engineering/construction job.
 
jag4life said:
200 miles is a bit of an exaggeration, but there is no fracking in Allen, TX. And if that were the cause of this issue, other buildings and houses would have had the same issues.

This is likely just a poor engineering/construction job.
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Agreed. That's what it sounds like to me. And it's going to be an expensive lesson for the engineers/contractor. :shame:
 
LadyJag said:
So glad my daughter is a Sr, but feel sorry for other families.
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But If you're in Allen ISD, they've already gotten or will be taking your tax dollars no matter what. I thought this entire project was a waste of resources. I'm curious to see how this turns out.
 
jag4life said:
200 miles is a bit of an exaggeration, but there is no fracking in Allen, TX. And if that were the cause of this issue, other buildings and houses would have had the same issues.

This is likely just a poor engineering/construction job.
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Whatever caused it, it is still due to poor oversight and ignoring construction regulations. Texas is currently a red state that believe in little to no government regulations, so that companies can maximize on their profit. Instead of doing it right the first time, it's probably going cost tax payers a lot more money just to fix the stadium. I bet the contractor cut so many corners to make a profit that the building code became totally irrelevant. I hope forsensic engineering can determine who or what is responsible for the poor construction.
 
JAG89 said:
Whatever caused it, it is still due to poor oversight and ignoring construction regulations. Texas is currently a red state that believe in little to no government regulations, so that companies can maximize on their profit. Instead of doing it right the first time, it's probably going cost tax payers a lot more money just to fix the stadium. I bet the contractor cut so many corners to make a profit that the building code became totally irrelevant. I hope forsensic engineering can determine who or what is responsible for the poor construction.
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Being an engineer in Texas, I wouldn't say there are lax regulations for public structures. These folks just cut corners, as you said.
 
Any good contractor would know that it is best - cheaper, faster and more profitable in the long run - to do the job right the first time. Going back to fix problems takes time and is costly both in dollar terms and in terms of damage to reputation. It's almost impossible to get to the level of doing 60 million dollar contracts by cutting corners. A stadium is primarily rebar and concrete. If they built it to spec, it's kinda hard to cut corners.

I'm leaning toward poor design or some other oversight by the engineers. It's possible that the contractor cut corners, but I doubt that's the reason this structure is failing after only 18 months.
 



SUJagFan said:
Any good contractor would know that it is best - cheaper, faster and more profitable in the long run - to do the job right the first time. Going back to fix problems takes time and is costly both in dollar terms and in terms of damage to reputation. It's almost impossible to get to the level of doing 60 million dollar contracts by cutting corners. A stadium is primarily rebar and concrete. If they built it to spec, it's kinda hard to cut corners.

I'm leaning toward poor design or some other oversight by the engineers. It's possible that the contractor cut corners, but I doubt that's the reason this structure is failing after only 18 months.
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Engineers don't like signing off on a bad design unless they are getting some type of kickback. Working as a public works engineer for two different cities and working as a consultant engineer, I've seen contractors try to cut more corners then any. A contractor in New Orleans got some jail time for installing 4 feet deep pilings that should have been at least 20 to 30 feet deep on post-Katrina fire stations in St. Bernard Parish. In some places where there should have been a pile, there were no pile at all. Most engineers do not want to be associated with bad projects, whereas contractors look for every means to save money during construction. When a contractor submit an unreasonable low bid to get a contract, engineers try to figure out what part of the project the contractor might have not included in their bid.

http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2009/07/st_bernard_council_discusses_c.html
 
jag4life said:
Being an engineer in Texas, I wouldn't say there are lax regulations for public structures. These folks just cut corners, as you said.
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Somebody wasn't watching the contractor for corners to be cut. I'm sure Allen, Texas have building inspectors to oversee construction jobs. Also, the design engineer should have had a construction inspector on site every day during construction, which the cost for a construction inspector should have been built into the engineer's design fee. I've seen government agencies try remove the design engineer completely out of the construction process. These red states politicians are costing tax payers more money just because they try to circumvent the process when it comes to enforcing regulations.
 
SUJagFan said:
Any good contractor would know that it is best - cheaper, faster and more profitable in the long run - to do the job right the first time. Going back to fix problems takes time and is costly both in dollar terms and in terms of damage to reputation. It's almost impossible to get to the level of doing 60 million dollar contracts by cutting corners. A stadium is primarily rebar and concrete. If they built it to spec, it's kinda hard to cut corners.

I'm leaning toward poor design or some other oversight by the engineers. It's possible that the contractor cut corners, but I doubt that's the reason this structure is failing after only 18 months.
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I mean the engineers cut corners also.
 
JAG89 said:
Engineers don't like signing off on a bad design unless they are getting some type of kickback. Working as a public works engineer for two different cities and working as a consultant engineer, I've seen contractors try to cut more corners then any. A contractor in New Orleans got some jail time for installing 4 feet deep pilings that should have been at least 20 to 30 feet deep on post-Katrina fire stations in St. Bernard Parish. In some places where there should have been a pile, there were no pile at all. Most engineers do not want to be associated with bad projects, whereas contractors look for every means to save money during construction. When a contractor submit an unreasonable low bid to get a contract, engineers try to figure out what part of the project the contractor might have not included in their bid.

http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2009/07/st_bernard_council_discusses_c.html
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:lol:

Most contractors don't want to be associated with bad projects either. There are just as many stories of structures failing because of poor design and engineering as there are of contractors cutting corners. I understand engineering is your profession, but engineers aren't infallible. I've seen many architects and engineers get cussed out on job sites for being arrogant about their profession but not knowing what the hell they were talking about. :lol:

For all we know, both could be responsible. Concrete cracks in the manner described in that article for one reason - the structure is moving in a way it shouldn't move. If that is due to poor design or poor construction, it's not going to be difficult to determine who is responsible. And whoever is responsible is going to regret making that mistake.
 
jag4life said:
I mean the engineers cut corners also.
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You do realize engineers are hired for a particular project based on qualification and experience and their design fee is what it is, whereas contractors are selected based on the lowest bid process. Unless they are receiving some type of kickback, why would an engineer need to cut corners?
 
SUJagFan said:
:lol:

Most contractors don't want to be associated with bad projects either. There are just as many stories of structures failing because of poor design and engineering as there are of contractors cutting corners. I understand engineering is your profession, but engineers aren't infallible. I've seen many architects and engineers get cussed out on job sites for being arrogant about their profession but not knowing what the hell they were talking about. :lol:

For all we know, both could be responsible. Concrete cracks in the manner described in that article for one reason - the structure is moving in a way it shouldn't move. If that is due to poor design or poor construction, it's not going to be difficult to determine who is responsible. And whoever is responsible is going to regret making that mistake.
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You do realize there's a lot that goes into a stadium construction project, such as geotechnical/earthworks, pour in-place concrete foundations and footings, concrete mixtures/admixtures, concrete reinforcement/steel rebar, precast concrete, etc. Faulty design or emplacement of any of those items could result in cracks in the concrete. And if seismic active in that area has recently increased exponentially, I'm sure no one considered that to be a factor.
 
JAG89 said:
You do realize there's a lot that goes into a stadium construction project, such as geotechnical/earthworks, pour in-place concrete foundations and footings, concrete mixtures/admixtures, concrete reinforcement/steel rebar, precast concrete, etc. Faulty design or emplacement of any of those items could result in cracks in the concrete. And if seismic active in that area has recently increased exponentially, I'm sure no one considered that to be a factor.
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:lol:

Nah, JAG89. I have no idea what goes into the building of a stadium. :lol:

And if no one considered increased seismic activity to be a factor ... that might be a huge hint to who is responsible. :lol:
 
JAG89 said:
You do realize engineers are hired for a particular project based on qualification and experience and their design fee is what it is, whereas contractors are selected based on the lowest bid process. Unless they are receiving some type of kickback, why would an engineer need to cut corners?
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No man... design firms are hired based on the lowest bit also. There is a cost for the design and development phase as well as for construction. An engineering design could have errors if they allowed a less experienced engineer do the load analysis and the PE did not thoroughly check the analysis before stamping. Or it could be an issue of a designer who is past his prime (shoulda retired years ago) and overlooked something. Might not have done a good pre-design survey.... all types of possibilities.
 
SUJagFan said:
:lol:

Nah, JAG89. I have no idea what goes into the building of a stadium. :lol:

And if no one considered increased seismic activity to be a factor ... that might be a huge hint to who is responsible. :lol:
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The people who keep track of seismic activities in United States/Seismologist.

Although I gave you a clear example of a contractor cutting corners during construction in the news article I previously posted, you appear to be a pro-contractor type person. I bet you think former Louisiana Governor Mike Foster who was a construction contractor was the best governor Louisiana ever had. :lol: Bighead Mike made sure his construction buddies in Louisiana, such as Boh Brothers, James Construction, and Gilchrist got paid big time when it came to the Louisiana TIMED Program. You do realized that 4 cent on every gallon of gasoline you purchase in Louisiana go to fatten their pockets. Ole Piyush "Bobby" Jindal is trying to follow his mentor (Bighead Mike) lead.
 
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