So is THIS the reason LeBron has struggled in the NBA Finals?


Blacknbengal said:
Me too. I dont understand why they put this type of pressure on these young kids just because their bodies is more athletic and bigger than back in the day. Their brains are still developing.
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I think the criticism is somewhat justified. Not all of it of course, but when you are the best player in the sport you have to be judged by certain standards. I said the same thing in the ECF talking about Derrick Rose.

He was the MVP so his performances in those games had to be judged my MVP standards. And Rose, as great of a player he was in the regular season and the first two rounds of the postseason, failed to rise to the occasion in the critical moments of those games against the Heat.

That is how great players and great teams are judged. What do you do when it gets tough? What do you do when you HAVE to make a play or a shot or make a stop on defense?

If there is a good percentage of people out there who believe LeBron is the best player in the game, then he has to play up to that standard in these big games. He was the cat who went out on that limb and proclaim the Heat were going to win the eight championships.

It was he who said prior to Game 5 that it was the biggest game of his life. If you are going to put all that pressure on yourself, then you have to deliver. And when you don't deliver, you have to expect criticism.
 



Blacknbengal said:
Show tape, LaBron hata.
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Don't have the tape but I do have the article of them talking about it after the game & I know what I saw on TV.

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_basketball_heat/2011/06/dwyane-wade-calls-out-lebron-no-umbrage-taken.html

Q: Dwyane, you got a bit feisty out there today, whether it was talking to LeBron at one time in the fourth quarter, admonishing Chris to a degree. Can you talk about the spirit you have. It seemed for a while you guys were on pins and needles, you came together friendly-like. It seems like today you said, ‘We need this.’ Can you discuss those what got those emotions going? And LeBron can you talk about when Dwyane got in your face a little bit, what’s that experience like?

Wade: “Them guys understand. They know me. I understand them. If things are said to each other, it’s all in the better for the team. It’s all about winning. I want it. LeBron knew that. The things I was saying to him, I was saying to Chris, wasn’t nothing they wouldn’t say to me. It was something they would say to me in the Chicago series and vice versa. We have enough respect for each other. At the same time, I wanted it. I was just trying to help them guys and feel like ways that they can be better to help our team be better at that moment and vice versa. They do the same to me. I don’t know if I got in his face, but I was just trying to do what leaders do and do what captains do. Step up and say what you feel at that point in order.”

Q: LeBron, it doesn’t seem like there have been many teammates who feel empowered enough to do that. What’s that moment like and what’s it like having a teammate that, heck, at this moment I’m going to tell you what I need to tell you whether you’re LeBron James or just the 12th guy on the roster?

James: “It’s just we’re teammates. At this point there’s no room to hold anything back. There’s nine or eight days left in the season. I think our friendship allows us to don’t care about that moment. It’s living in the moment. That situation he had every right to say what he had to say to me. As a competitor, you love when guys challenge you. He challenged me in the locker room at halftime. He challenged me on the court. As a competitor, like I said, I respect that.”

Q: What did he say when he got in your face?

James: “Something that — I don’t know if my kids are asleep right now.”

Q: It’s midnight. You can say it.

James: “No, my kids stay up late.”

Wade: “They’ll watch ESPN tomorrow.”

Q: Dwyane, was it about the offense? Being stagnant or . . .

Wade: “It was about winning.”
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he has a point about being raised with women to why Lebron does some things differently....if he had a father maybe he's not a Yankees fan cause everyone else is, etc.....by the time people saw he was going to be something the men that came around then aren't going to chastise you because their trying to stay on the gravy train.
 
the band fan said:
he has a point about being raised with women to why Lebron does some things differently....if he had a father maybe he's not a Yankees fan cause everyone else is, etc.....by the time people saw he was going to be something the men that came around then aren't going to chastise you because their trying to stay on the gravy train.
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Yeah, his mom had him when she was like 15 or 16. I don't think I have read or heard anything about his dad.
 
Blacknbengal said:
Me too. I dont understand why they put this type of pressure on these young kids just because their bodies is more athletic and bigger than back in the day. Their brains are still developing.
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Arrogance is the reason. They the media and many other fans didn't like, he and Wade's performance after the Celtics series. You don't gloat in the NBA until you are holding the gold ball.
 
CATMENDUE2 said:
Arrogance is the reason. They the media and many other fans didn't like, he and Wade's performance after the Celtics series. You don't gloat in the NBA until you are holding the gold ball.
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I don't think it's arrogance. You could understand why Wade and LeBron celebrated the way they did. Boston was the defending East champions, and they had been the personal postseason nemesis of both Wade and LeBron.

I thought too many people took that way too seriously. Obviously it didn't affect the Heat in dispatching the Bulls in five games in the next round.
 
kendrick said:
I don't think it's arrogance. You could understand why Wade and LeBron celebrated the way they did. Boston was the defending East champions, and they had been the personal postseason nemesis of both Wade and LeBron.

I thought too many people took that way too seriously. Obviously it didn't affect the Heat in dispatching the Bulls in five games in the next round.
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Thank you.
 
Lebron is the way he for the same reasons given on this board ever week, far to many people in his life have been kissing his azz and telling him how great he was and is going to be and he hasn't accomplish isht.

As for a man in his life, every player that they claim lebron is better then or try to compare too had a strong father figure in their life and they all spoke about what that meant to them.

Kobe, Magic, Michael each to the letter spoke about how their father's push them. Can any of you honestly imagine any of those ole schoolers babying either of them or letting them get away with pussy azz excuses day-in an day-out?
 
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bluedog said:
Lebron is the way he for the same reason on this board are given ever week, far to many people in his life have been kissing his azz and tellinh him how great he was and is going to be and he hasn't accomplish isht.

As for a man in his life, every play that they claim lebron is better then or try too compare too had a strong father figure in their life and they all spoke about what that meant to them.

Kobe, Magic, Michael each to the letter spoke about how their father's push them. Can any of you honestly imagine any of those ole schoolers babying either of them or letting them get away with pussy azz excuses day-in an day-out?
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I agree that LeBron has had many enablers throughout his basketball career which pretty much started when he was a preteen which has not always have served his best interest and spawned a sometimes immature and arrogant person.

As as far as Kobe, Magic and Jordan's upbringing with their fathers are concerned, those men had the luxury of having a father in their lives. LeBron didn't. He was born to a teen mom, who really didn't always have her life in order. According to accounts from those close to LeBron, he moved around a ton as a kid. He didn't come from the stable two-parent background like Jordan or Magic.

LeBron's dad wasn't a pro basketball player like Kobe's was. In fact, nobody knows what his dad did for a living or how often he was part of his son's life if at all. LeBron's father's were probably his basketball coaches and his handlers.

When it comes could we imagine those old school cats letting their sons get away with excuses. Well, those guys families and associates didn't need them to be successful basketball players for them to get out of their dire circumstances or to help make a name for themselves or to get whatever benefits that came along by being associated with this phenom.

That's why LeBron probably wasn't "nurtured" the same way as those other guys were.

Hey, as long as he was ballin' at a high level in high school, winning championships and giving the school and the community national attention, LeBron could do what he pleased. He was everyone's meal ticket for something.

And I'm tired of people saying what has LeBron accomplished or any other athlete has accomplished. To that I say what have you accomplished?
 
kendrick said:
I agree that LeBron has had many enablers throughout his basketball career which pretty much started when he was a preteen which has not always have served his best interest and spawned a sometimes immature and arrogant person.

As as far as Kobe, Magic and Jordan's upbringing with their fathers are concerned, those men had the luxury of having a father in their lives. LeBron didn't. He was born to a teen mom, who really didn't always have her life in order. According to accounts from those close to LeBron, he moved around a ton as a kid. He didn't come from the stable two-parent background like Jordan or Magic.

LeBron's dad wasn't a pro basketball player like Kobe's was. In fact, nobody knows what his dad did for a living or how often he was part of his son's life if at all. LeBron's father's were probably his basketball coaches and his handlers.

When it comes could we imagine those old school cats letting their sons get away with excuses. Well, those guys families and associates didn't need them to be successful basketball players for them to get out of their dire circumstances or to help make a name for themselves or to get whatever benefits that came along by being associated with this phenom.

That's why LeBron probably wasn't "nurtured" the same way as those other guys were.

Hey, as long as he was ballin' at a high level in high school, winning championships and giving the school and the community national attention, LeBron could do what he pleased. He was everyone's meal ticket for something.

And I'm tired of people saying what has LeBron accomplished or any other athlete has accomplished. To that I say what have you accomplished?
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It amazes me how often you start off making a decent point but in the end miss the entire point.

How do you know what Kobe, Magic or Michael's life would have been without their father in it, but for the grace of God? :lecture: :banghead:

As for what I've accomplish, lasted I looked, I wasn't an NBA player proclaiming to be the second coming and promising to win seven titles in the next seven years, or did you miss that little tidbit?


Just askin....
 



the band fan said:
he has a point about being raised with women to why Lebron does some things differently....if he had a father maybe he's not a Yankees fan cause everyone else is, etc.....by the time people saw he was going to be something the men that came around then aren't going to chastise you because their trying to stay on the gravy train.
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That's a big crock... I was raised in the home with a great grandmother, her neice, my mother and two sister plus later a neice 13 years younger than me. The only thing it impacted was never having to wash dishes... and doing all the yard work, garden chores.
 
bluedog said:
It amazes me how often you start off making a decent point but in the end miss the entire point.

How do you know what Kobe, Magic or Michael's life would have been without their father in it, but for the grace of God? :lecture: :banghead:

As for what I've accomplish, lasted I looked, I wasn't an NBA player proclaiming to be the second coming and promising to win seven titles in the next seven years, or did you miss that little tidbit?


Just askin....
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Thank you.
 
bluedog said:
It amazes me how often you start off making a decent point but in the end miss the entire point.

How do you know what Kobe, Magic or Michael's life would have been without their father in it, but for the grace of God? :lecture: :banghead:

As for what I've accomplish, lasted I looked, I wasn't an NBA player proclaiming to be the second coming and promising to win seven titles in the next seven years, or did you miss that little tidbit?


Just askin....
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I think it is kinda silly to even bring up the role of fathers to begin with, considering two weeks ago when LeBron was dominating the Bulls nobody was talking about his upbringing or who is making excuses for him or what role Jordan's, Kobe's and Magic's dad played in their development as basketball players.

I have heard countless times since last July LeBron proclaiming that he and the Heat would win seven championships. But that doesn't mean he hasn't accomplished anything in the league, however. Has he won a championship yet? Nope. Has he lived up to the hype that surrounded him prior to joining the NBA? Yes.

I don't want to talk about what he said at some pep rally. But to have the expectation on your shoulders to be great at 18 (something Kobe, Magic or Jordan never had to deal with) and then deliver is an accomplishment to me. It might not be defined as winning a championship or even seven of them. Who he is as a basketball player and as a personality has captivated a nation like no other player since Jordan. If you want to compare something to Jordan, that would be it.

We have been talking about whose team it his, and who is Batman or who is Robin for the last week. But the question has been answered. It's LeBron. Nobody gives a crap when D-Wade has a bad game or an average game in the playoffs. When Wade was having a subpar series against Chicago nobody was dissecting his performances 100 different ways from Sunday.

For the last two postseasons LeBron has had a triple-double in a game. Last year, 27, 10 and 18 against Boston was met with questions about his will to win, and 17, 10 and 10 against Dallas was met with questions about him shrinking under the pressure of the big stage. Heck, even when the Heat won Game 3, he was ripped by a columnist because 17 and 9 wasn't good enough. Wade had 29 and 11 and all the talk was about about his teammate.

Look, when you make bold proclamations like LeBron did and you don't live up to them, you deserved to be criticized. When you are best player in the sport and you don't play like it in the biggest series of the year and your life, you deserve to be criticized because the standards for you are different.

However, that doesn't mean one should discredit an athlete by saying he hasn't accomplished anything when he has. He's won the league MVP twice. He made two franchises relevant that were up until the point he joined them were irrelevant.

He made what usually is a ho hum NBA offseason into national event for two months. He's, win, lose or draw, made the NBA must see TV. The ratings for Heat games are off the chart. The interest in the league has surged as a result, especially from people who have been historically casual basketball observers. I wish this series went 11 games instead of 7. This is great theater.

So yes, he's accomplished a ton actually.
 
Kendrick the only reason the media is questioning this 'Lebron' is because they have created this 'Chosen 1'. Now is the time for him to make them look good since they have prematurely rewarded him the gifts of a legit Champion. You are part of this media & subscribe to what they believe should BE...

I don't. I look at facts & what makes a man a man when he's in that crucible of life (or game). Your boy (because he really is that mentally) has 2 games left to prove detractors wrong. And him winning a championship doesn't prove me wrong...him stepping up & doing what is needed when he is called upon is what I've been waiting 7-8 years for this guy to show me and he hasn't. And the eye test doesn't lie...this guy has failed his team up to this point. I don't care who the media credits. I care what is real...so far Dwade is the only guy on that team showing some real Heart. Dirk, Barea, & Terry are playing above their level. That is what it means to be Great.

When Lebron shows he has something 'other' than just physical size, other than just speed, other than just jumping ability...but something inside of him that makes him play above the REST of the individuals on that court during a time of need. Then and only then will I subscribe to this labeling of the media...the Chosen1. We can respect giving your all.

As of today...He just hasn't earned any of it. I don't care how big and fast you are...this world has a way of pushing you to your brink & making what's inside of you surface for all to see. This is Lebron's time to show us what he's truly made of in the game of basketball (not life). This is why men love sports & competition. It's a microcosm of life. This is the theater you speak of...not the phenom Lebron.
 
Blacknbengal said:
Me too. I dont understand why they put this type of pressure on these young kids just because their bodies is more athletic and bigger than back in the day. Their brains are still developing.
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Kids? Lebron is in his mid-twenties after 8 years in the league. Yes the media put some pressure on him, but he bought into the hype.
 
Brave said:
Kendrick the only reason the media is questioning this 'Lebron' is because they have created this 'Chosen 1'. Now is the time for him to make them look good since they have prematurely rewarded him the gifts of a legit Champion. You are part of this media & subscribe to what they believe should BE...

I don't. I look at facts & what makes a man a man when he's in that crucible of life (or game). Your boy (because he really is that mentally) has 2 games left to prove detractors wrong. And him winning a championship doesn't prove me wrong...him stepping up & doing what is needed when he is called upon is what I've been waiting 7-8 years for this guy to show me and he hasn't. And the eye test doesn't lie...this guy has failed his team up to this point. I don't care who the media credits. I care what is real...so far Dwade is the only guy on that team showing some real Heart. Dirk, Barea, & Terry are playing above their level. That is what it means to be Great.

When Lebron shows he has something 'other' than just physical size, other than just speed, other than just jumping ability...but something inside of him that makes him play above the REST of the individuals on that court during a time of need. Then and only then will I subscribe to this labeling of the media...the Chosen1. We can respect giving your all.

As of today...He just hasn't earned any of it. I don't care how big and fast you are...this world has a way of pushing you to your brink & making what's inside of you surface for all to see. This is Lebron's time to show us what he's truly made of in the game of basketball (not life). This is why men love sports & competition. It's a microcosm of life. This is the theater you speak of...not the phenom Lebron.
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It is fair game to criticize him for being underwhelming the last four games.

This LeBron is not being criticized by the media because he's failed to live up to their "Chosen One" tag. He's being criticized because after winning the league MVP twice and playing so well this season and in the first three rounds of the postseason, he hasn't performed well consistently enough in this series.

We've seen LeBron be special in the postseason before. Not too long ago folks were saying he should have been the MVP instead of Rose because of how much he dominated that series against Chicago.

That's why he's being criticized now. Folks are wondering if he left his talents in the United Center. People want to see that guy again. Folks know that guy exists somewhere in that 6-8, 260-pound body. It's baffling at this point.

LeBron is an enigma. He's has the Chosen One tattooed on his back, but then on "The Decision" TV special he said he joined the Heat because he didn't want to have the burden on his shoulders of scoring 30 or 35 points every game for his team to have a shot a winning.

Maybe LeBron is still trying to find his basketball identity. Who knows? I think these last four games in the NBA Finals has resulted in more soul searching done by those who are not LeBron than LeBron himself.
 
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You guys talk about the mentoring or the lack of it for LeBron and that is very important. LeBron is missing the mentoring by a good veteran once you come in the league.

Michael talks about all the time how Oakley took him under his wing and they are still friends today. Barkley talks about how Moses Malone took him under his wing. Magic, when he went to the Lakers, went to a good veteran team. LeBron, was told bascially to be the face of the team from day one, and the Cavs fired the one person that really could have helped him as a player and a person, Paul Silas.

LeBron has been anointed king from day one and has not lived up to the pressure.
 
kendrick said:
Maybe LeBron is still trying to find his basketball identity. Who knows? I think these last four games in the NBA Finals has resulted in more soul searching done by those who are not LeBron than LeBron himself.
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Man, what are you talking about?

I don't think Lebron is an enigma at all. He is clear to see. Most just refuse to see it. Lebron wants all of the accolades, all of the respect, all of the lime light, but he doesn't want to be the one who does the heavy lifting to attain it. He doesn't feel that should apply to him...because it never has.
 
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Brave said:
Man, what are you talking about?

I don't think Lebron is an enigma at all. He is clear to see. Most just refuse to see it. Lebron wants all of the accolades, all of the respect, all of the lime light, but he doesn't want to be the one who does the heavy lifting to attain it. He doesn't feel that should apply to him...because it never has.
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You made a lot of good points! We wonder why there is so much LeBron hate, because this is the attitude he portrays. Anoint me king, worship me, I am the great LeBron James. I have to have the lime light where ever I go, even if it means to push DeWayne Wade to the back.
 
We're all over analyzing this... He's played okay but not great, simple as that. But you're only as good as your last and/or next game! He puts up numbers and his team wins it all and it's a different tune (for some)
 
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