Now lets see how great Kobe Bryant really is

[jag4life]

I would not totally put the blame on Kobe. Kobe comes to play every night. His teammates do not. I don't know what is up with Pau but he is weak. After 3 years and 2 titles, Pau still does not get that you have to bring your A game every night. He (meaning Pau) does not play good defense.

Also, the Lakers need to learn that if the 3's are not falling, take it to the basket. 2 things will happen: you get foul while attempting a shot or you get 2 points.

Bottom line: I expect this series to go 7 games with L.A. wining it at home.

NBA players should be able to make wide open 3 pointers. Point blank.

 

[jag4life]

Allen Iverson. Kobe was 2nd team All-NBA all three years of the 3-peat. V Carter & Ray Allen were also at the top of their games then.

I'll give you AI but he was a "combo" guard volume shooter. If Kobe was allowed to jack it up as much as AI did he would have had the same, or better numbers.

V. Carter and Ray Allen were not better overall than Kobe.

 

[UAPB '97]

I'll give you AI but he was a "combo" guard volume shooter. If Kobe was allowed to jack it up as much as AI did he would have had the same, or better numbers.

V. Carter and Ray Allen were not better overall than Kobe.

Kobe, Allen, AI and Vince were all in the same class at that point. Kobe obviously rose higher later. But, it is still tough to deny that Shaq was the main man thoughout the 3-peat, just as Kobe has been for the last 2 rings.

 

[Bane]

That aint true. They were never challenged by a one man show against Philly and AI. They lost Game 1 and never looked back. LOL. Kobe never had to save them like they were in some danger of losing the series because of Shaq not hitting free throws. Shaq had his way with Philly. Same thing against Indiana. The Lakers as a team just had too much for an older Reggie Miller. Who else did they play in the Finals and win back then....New Jersey? LOL. C'mon son. The Lakers had no issues until they played Detroit who had no fear of them and all those all stars. Otherwise Kobe was not the so called difference in that 3 peat. Yall constantly try to devalue Shaq because he could not hit free throws. He aint the first big man not to be good at that. He was the Finals MVP all 3 times. Those Lakers team could have the title against those opponents with any guard that could score. They had a veteran squad. No Shaq.....no title. But certainly those teams were good enough with having even a Ray Allen instead of Kobe play second fiddle to Shaq and beat those 3 Finals opponents. Aint like Kobe had to lose sleep worrying about guarding against a bonafide super star at the 2 guard in those series. Reggie Miller was his toughest opponent and all he did was run off screens by then.

The only time they came close to being eliminated was against the Sacramento Kings in the Western Conference Finals and Robert Horry bailed their azzes out then. Also that refree who called 21 fouls in the fourth quarter on the Kings in Game 6 helped out a lot.

 

[jag4life]

Kobe, Allen, AI and Vince were all in the same class at that point. Kobe obviously rose higher later. But, it is still tough to deny that Shaq was the main man thoughout the 3-peat, just as Kobe has been for the last 2 rings.

Yeah Shaq was the man... it is just that some folks (not you) diminish Kobe's role to that of a minor piece of the puzzle.

 

[UAPB '97]

Yeah Shaq was the man... it is just that some folks (not you) diminish Kobe's role to that of a minor piece of the puzzle.

Kobe was the biggest other piece of that puzzle. But the presence of Shaq made everyone's job easier.

 

[jag4life]

The only time they came to being eliminated was against the Sacramento Kings in the Western Conference Finals and Robert Horry bailed their azzes out then. Also that refree that called 21 fouls in the fourth quarter on the Kings in Game 6 helped out a lot.

Sacramento also in the 1st round in 2000, and how could you forget that great Portland series in 2000?

 

[Folka]

I'm pulling for Dallas but I'm not counting the Lakers out, I think they still will win the series.

 

[Blacknbengal]

Mavs in a sweep.

:lol::lol:

LOL!!!!!!!

Well, I have the Mavs in 5

 

[JaguarNation99]

NBA players should be able to make wide open 3 pointers. Point blank.

Players that aren't good shooters aren't going to magically become good shooters, especially in the pressure of the playoffs. The Laker bench has been bad all year outside of Odom, who's a quasi-starter anyway.

That being said, I still wouldn't say the series is over, but they are in trouble for the long-haul. They dropped back to back games at home when Dallas didn't play great in either game. This is the result of a lot of things coming together at the same time. The Lakers won back to back titles in part because they were bigger than everyone else. They won the deciding game last year with Kobe going 6-24 because Boston couldn't keep them off the glass. Pau Gasol had more offensive rebounds by himself in game 7 than Boston had as a team. Like in other sports, teams build themselves to top the best team. You can see it throughout the West. Dallas got bigger. OKC got bigger. Even Memphis has size. That negated one of the Lakers' biggest advantages. Then, Kobe can't physically dominate teams on a nightly basis at this point in his career. Dallas is single covering him with Jason Kidd and DeShawn Stevenson, which is all but saying, Kobe, knock yourself out, shoot all you want, we don't think you can beat us. On top of that, their core players look like they're running on fumes. Playing in over 100 games three straight years (plus the Olympics or World Championships for some) has taken its toll on them.

 

[Warndalyn]

Go head on then, Dallas MAVS....I may have to make a trip to Dtown, if this keeps up. :tup:

 

[ER the Grambling Man]

Re: Bynum: Lakers have "trust issues"

Soft? Negro Please!!!!

Tell Bynum to shut his big charmin tissue soft azz up.

 

[JR]

Bruh... I didn't read the entire book you just wrote, but you are overlooking the fact that the reason the Lakers cruised through in the Finals was because the WEST was stacked up to beat Shaq. The Lakers wouldn't have made the Finals in 2000 and 2002 without Kobe.

By the time they got to the Finals, Shaq had a field day because he was free to abuse cats like Mutumbo (Philly's only big man), Rick Smits, and the rookie New Jersey had guarding him. Any coach will tell you to go through the big man in those matchups.

Dude, even Lakers fans I know don't buy the crap yall talk about that 3 peat and needing Kobe so bad. And at that time. Ray Allen was a better player than Kobe. Kobe didn't become the best 2 guard in the league until a little later. Was he top 5. Yes. But he was not the best 2 guard. And also Shaq made it a lot easier for him back then. Just face it. Nobody will be able to convince you TSPNers who love Kobe so much that the Lakers could have won with another bonafide star 2 guard with the other veteran players Phil and that staff had assembled. So gimme a break with that junk. JR aint stupid. If you really think that the Lakers would have lost to those 3 teams they played with Ray Allen at the 2 guard or even a young Paul Pierce then I don't know what to say about yall. LOL.

 

[JR]

Allen Iverson. Kobe was 2nd team All-NBA all three years of the 3-peat. V Carter & Ray Allen were also at the top of their games then.

Don't tell J4L that. He thinks Kobe then was as good as Kobe is now. Nobody disputes how great he became and he actually got better when Shaq left. But while Shaq and that group of vets Phil assembled.....like Horry, Grant, Fox and many others during that run, they could have plugged in any of the All Star 2 guards and won in the Finals. Nobody was going to stop Shaq then.

 

[JR]

JR,
And please kill that mess about Reggie Miller being a better player than Kobe during that time.

Who were the best Shooting guards in the league at that time in your opinion?

BTW, I didn't say Reggie was a better player at that time. I was just commenting on JayRob's statement that Shaq needed Kobe down the stretch to hit free throws. We all know Reggie Miller was one of the best free throw shooters in his era so using Jayrobs logic you could have plugged Reggie in that Lakers lineup and he would have been prolific in scoring and of course he would hit those critical free throws that Kobe had to hit to save Shaq and the Lakers.

 

[BULL DAWG]

We never put Kobe in MJ's category because Kobe has his own category.

Kobe has went to 7 NBA Finals Appearances with 5 rings. What else does Kobe have to prove? I wonder what team you stand by Styles...the Laker Haters?

Kobe was a role player for four of those trips. FYI. Those were Shaq led teams. He is not going to get credit for those. He has 3 appearances and 2 rings as the "man"

Kobe was number two and now is number one which is the point. What he did as the best supporting actor is irrelevant.

Exactly the most telling thing is Finals MVPs: Jordan has 6, Shaq has 3 and Kobe has 2. Kobe has LED his team to only 2 championships, the other 3 he was best supporting actor.

Also remember Jordan was 6 for 6... he never let his team lose in the finals... as a matter of fact, a Jordan-led team has never been upset in the playoffs. When the Bulls had the target on their back, MJ delivered. His teams always overachieved. They never underachieved.

 

[JayRob]

BTW, I didn't say Reggie was a better player at that time. I was just commenting on JayRob's statement that Shaq needed Kobe down the stretch to hit free throws. We all know Reggie Miller was one of the best free throw shooters in his era so using Jayrobs logic you could have plugged Reggie in that Lakers lineup and he would have been prolific in scoring and of course he would hit those critical free throws that Kobe had to hit to save Shaq and the Lakers.

JR, cease with the spin. Kobe was an all-around better player than Miller, in addition to his clutch free throw shooting. Kobe was a better defensive player than both Allen and Miller because he kept guards from easily driving the lane, which in turn would've put Shaq in potential foul trouble if he had to switch off of his man to cover the player penetrating the lane.
Basketball consists of both offense and defense.

 

[JayRob]

Exactly the most telling thing is Finals MVPs: Jordan has 6, Shaq has 3 and Kobe has 2. Kobe has LED his team to only 2 championships, the other 3 he was best supporting actor.

Also remember Jordan was 6 for 6... he never let his team lose in the finals... as a matter of fact, a Jordan-led team has never been upset in the playoffs. When the Bulls had the target on their back, MJ delivered. His teams always overachieved. They never underachieved.

Jordan never won a ring without Pippen. Kobe has won multiple titles without Shaq, so what's your point?

Jordan also had Scottie Pippen who saved Jordan multiple times when Jordan had 6 for 23 type games. It always amazes me how folks just ignore how much Scottie Pippen added to Jordan's legacy.

Right now, Kobe's doing more with less than what Jordan had. Kobe doesn't have a top 50 hall of famer player on that team, yet they've been to the NBA Finals for three straight years and going for a fourth straight appearance.

 

[Bane]

Jordan never won a ring without Pippen. Kobe has won multiple titles without Shaq, so what's your point?

Jordan also had Scottie Pippen who saved Jordan multiple times when Jordan had 6 for 23 type games. It always amazes me how folks just ignore how much Scottie Pippen added to Jordan's legacy.

Right now, Kobe's doing more with less than what Jordan had. Kobe doesn't have a top 50 hall of famer player on that team, yet they've been to the NBA Finals for three straight years and going for a fourth straight appearance.

Yeah, ok. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Yes, Pippen played a part in Jordan's legacy, but there is no doubt who was the best player on that team. Kobe was not the best player when Shaq was in L.A.

 

[jag4life]

Dude, even Lakers fans I know don't buy the crap yall talk about that 3 peat and needing Kobe so bad. And at that time. Ray Allen was a better player than Kobe. Kobe didn't become the best 2 guard in the league until a little later. Was he top 5. Yes. But he was not the best 2 guard. And also Shaq made it a lot easier for him back then. Just face it. Nobody will be able to convince you TSPNers who love Kobe so much that the Lakers could have won with another bonafide star 2 guard with the other veteran players Phil and that staff had assembled. So gimme a break with that junk. JR aint stupid. If you really think that the Lakers would have lost to those 3 teams they played with Ray Allen at the 2 guard or even a young Paul Pierce then I don't know what to say about yall. LOL.

man I was in L.A. during a lot of the 3-peat. Heck I was at my boy's house (SU Grad) in Compton watching game 7 against the Kings, and at ESPNZone in Anaheim watching game 4 when Horry hit the game winner. I was in the building when they beat Portland in game 1 of one of their series during that time. I think I've been around a few more Laker fans than you. :lol:

My point is... you can say AI was a better 2 guard than Kobe back then, but you can't say Miller, Allen or Vince Carter were better overall. Ray Ray didn't play defense until he got with KG and Doc Rivers. lol

 

[kellis]

As much as I love the Lakers and I do loovvvvvvvvvveeeeeeee the Lakers, you can stick a fork in them. They are done. :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling:

 

[Bane]

Jordon led the Bulls back from a 0-2 whole against a tough NY Knicks team.

Let's see if Kobe can lead the Lakers back against a soft azz Mavericks team.

 

[jstate83]

Told ya'll when they resigned those players.
Odem, Bynom, and Artest should have been in a package for Dwight Howard. The way Gasol playing right now, he can bring in another player. Don't see my LAKERS winning 4 before Dallas win 2. :smh:

 

[jag4life]

Told ya'll when they resigned those players.
Odem, Bynom, and Artest should have been in a package for Dwight Howard. The way Gasol playing right now, he can bring in another player. Don't see my LAKERS winning 4 before Dallas win 2. :smh:

Dwight Howard, the guy who got used by Bynum and Gasol in the finals 2 seasons ago? nah.

 

[jstate83]

Dwight Howard, the guy who got used by Bynum and Gasol in the finals 2 seasons ago? nah.

Yeah...........Dewight Howard that play for the Orlando Magic. The same Dwight Howard that has grown and got more aggressive than he was 2 years ago.

The same Dwight Howard that play for ORLANDO Magic that got "Mr. I quitting the Heat to spend more time with my family" coaching them. Put Dwight Howard on the Lakers team for a year and he will be a beast down low. Bynam ain't done crap since he got there except stay injured. Odem disappears if you look at him hard. Artest ain't never been the best player in the world and Gasol is up and down.