Earthquake in Chile has hidden spiritual message

[JayRob]

Yes, it's open to all religions, but let's not be ignorant to a no polling opinion that "probably" 95-98% of TSPN members consider themselves to be of the Christian faith, and when one of the members discuss biblical issues, it's in reference to one bible.....the holy bible. Also, I can "probably" say that when most members ask for prayer, they would rather those prayers end in "Jesus" name. My numbers may be off, but deifinately close..........

It matters not who you pray to because in Christianity, there's 31,000 divisive denominations, none believing the same. Why is that? As a matter of fact, you seem to have more people correcting you due to your many errors, and you're supposedly a Christian, so go figure.

I told you why angels needs a chariot, they need them to travel.

You told me why REGULAR angels needed chariots, but not cherubs, which are much higher than average angels. Just admit that you don't know why you said that satan needs a chariot even though he has wings, and leave it at that. You've been taken through the ringer enough.

What does talking about a chariot have to do with religious/pagan belief?

The pagan article that you claim to stand by that talks about Ezekiel's description of cherubs, is what has to do with paganism. You claim to be a Christian, yet you're quoting and openly supporting pagan literature. You found the article, posted the article and are defending a pagan article. No need to shy away from your paganistic viewpoints now.

Seems that you'd rather sell your reputation over to pagan teachings than admit that your theory is wrong regarding the cherubs in Ezekiel.

 

[Dr H..]

I told you why angels needs a chariot, they need them to travel.

:lol:

RB, please explain why angles need chariot's to travel. Name, one angel listed in the bible that required a chariot to travel from one place to another. How long would it take an angel to travel from here [earth] to the presence of God.

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

It matters not who you pray to because in Christianity, there's 31,000 divisive denominations, none believing the same. Why is that? As a matter of fact, you seem to have more people correcting you due to your many errors, and you're supposedly a Christian, so go figure.

.....and in those denominations, if they believe Christ died on the cross to offer salvation to all souls, then they all believe the same gospel. Yes, Christians differ on many interpretations in the bible, however we all agree on the ultimate belief which is Christ. Stop trying to divert to denominations.

You told me why REGULAR angels needed chariots, but not cherubs, which are much higher than average angels. Just admit that you don't know why you said that satan needs a chariot even though he has wings, and leave it at that. You've been taken through the ringer enough.

Do you not realize that all angels look the same, however they carry a different office in power? Just because the office is higher, doesn't change the physical form of an angel. For example, God and Christ look the same physically and spiritually, although they carry a different office. So many Christians allow this beautiful secret to go in one ear and out the other. Christ is telling them that He looks exactly like God, and if they don't believe Him, then at least believe the miracles He performed............. John 14:8 Philip said to Him, Lord, show us the Father [cause us to see the Father--that is all we ask]; then we shall be satisfied.

John 14:9 Jesus replied, Have I been with all of you for so long a time, and do you not recognize and know Me yet, Philip? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say then, Show us the Father?

John 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in Me? What I am telling you I do not say on My own authority and of My own accord; but the Father Who lives continually in Me does the ([a]His) works (His own miracles, deeds of power).

John 14:11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me; or else believe Me for the sake of the [very] works themselves. [If you cannot trust Me, at least let these works that I do in My Father's name convince you.]

The point I'm making is that all angels look the same in physical form, but not all carry the same power. Angels do not have wings attached to their physical body to fly. Now, angels do have wings, but those wings are of a chariot and horse. It's no different than a human being. Humans have wings too, but they are not attached to their physical body. Humans earn their wings once they finish flight school. Not all humans have wings, and if I be a lie, then prove it. Again, you don't know how to rightly divide the word because you have not the holy spirit. You will never understand this if Christ is not in you. This deep spiritual knowledge is reserved for those who are in one of the three spiritual levels of Christ. I divert a little, but it was necessary for the deeper student in Christ.

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

The pagan article that you claim to stand by that talks about Ezekiel's description of cherubs, is what has to do with paganism. You claim to be a Christian, yet you're quoting and openly supporting pagan literature. You found the article, posted the article and are defending a pagan article. No need to shy away from your paganistic viewpoints now.

Seems that you'd rather sell your reputation over to pagan teachings than admit that your theory is wrong regarding the cherubs in Ezekiel.

Again, there is nothing pagan about discussing a vehicle. Discussing a vehicle, and the witness of others documenting what they saw, has nothing to do with a religious belief. I stand by my source.

UFOs in the Bible part 1/5

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RAdMk_zpo20&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RAdMk_zpo20&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

UFOs in the Bible part 2/5

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/qQrHK-Qp4q0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qQrHK-Qp4q0&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

UFOs in the Bible part 3/5

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uAsWtWJhEYI&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uAsWtWJhEYI&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

UFOs in the Bible part 4/5

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/SjwGOtWb33s&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/SjwGOtWb33s&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

UFOs in the Bible part 5/5

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/CAKX89P-nbQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/CAKX89P-nbQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

:lol:

RB, please explain why angles need chariot's to travel. Name, one angel listed in the bible that required a chariot to travel from one place to another. How long would it take an angel to travel from here [earth] to the presence of God.

Look at the videos I previously posted.

 

[JayRob]

.....and in those denominations, if they believe Christ died on the cross to offer salvation to all souls, then they all believe the same gospel. Yes, Christians differ on many interpretations in the bible, however we all agree on the ultimate belief which is Christ. Stop trying to divert to denominations.

So merely believing in a Christ is all there is to this gospel you speak of? You said it, I didn't.

Do you not realize that all angels look the same, however they carry a different office in power? Just because the office is higher, doesn't change the physical form of an angel.

Where does the bible say ALL angels look the same? Do you actually read your posts before pressing "send message"?
Again you keep digging your own hole to bury yourself time and time again.

The point I'm making is that all angels look the same in physical form, but not all carry the same power. Angels do not have wings attached to their physical body to fly. Now, angels do have wings, but those wings are of a chariot and horse. It's no different than a human being. Humans have wings too, but they are not attached to their physical body. Humans earn their wings once they finish flight school. Not all humans have wings, and if I be a lie, then prove it.

Show verses where it says ALL angels look the same.
And your analogy of humans not having wings is laughable and makes no sense at all.

Again, you don't know how to rightly divide the word because you have not the holy spirit. You will never understand this if Christ is not in you. This deep spiritual knowledge is reserved for those who are in one of the three spiritual levels of Christ. I divert a little, but it was necessary for the deeper student in Christ.

If you claim that I don't know how to rightly divide stories of fiction and fable, then why are there 31,000 differing denominations? You all have the SAME book, so why is there so much division within your own ranks?

By falsely condemning me, you unwittingly condemn thousands and thousands from your own religion.

Understanding the books of fiction in the bible merely requires a mind free from being controlled by societal pressures that force people to believe fabled miracles occurred; it requires using simple logic; and it requires being objective.
Most in your religion don't have these three things, including yourself.

Not bragging on myself, but I don't have a holy spirit, yet I seem to know more about the bible than you, a supposed "holy spirit-filled" Christian. Why is that?

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

So merely believing in a Christ is all there is to this gospel you speak of? You said it, I didn't.

Believing in Christ guarantee you salvation, however it does not guarantee you rewards on judgment day. The righteous robe of Christians in heaven are made up of their good works.

Where does the bible say ALL angels look the same? Do you actually read your posts before pressing "send message"?
Again you keep digging your own hole to bury yourself time and time again.

Read Job 38:4-7 first, and then read Genesis 1:26. You will find out that God and the angels are males. This is why Christ stated that if you've seen the Son you've seen the Father because Christ was created in the image of God; and humans are created in the image of their angelic body from the first earth age. Am I saying we were once a son of God/angel in Job 38:4-7? Yes, we were there with God in Job 38:4-7. This can be documented from John 3:3 in the Strong's Concordance, the words "born again" means to be "born from above", in other words to be born from heaven. Every human soul that has ever walked the earth was born from heaven. This is why God can make the statement in Jeremiah 1:5, and this is also why humans don't have access to more than 90% of their brain power. This memory was purposely blocked by God to prevent humans from remembering what happened in the first earth age when Satan rebelled, and lead billions of angels/one third away from God. Again, the only way you will ever understand any of this is unless you accept Christ's invitation.

If you claim that I don't know how to rightly divide stories of fiction and fable, then why are there 31,000 differing denominations? You all have the SAME book, so why is there so much division within your own ranks?

.....because in stupidity and ignorance men divide that which is whole. God accounted for the division in His plan, and calls it the many member body of Christ. Each body part/denomination have different interpretations of scripture, however they all accept and believe Christ is the Savior of this world. Christ will overthrow the division in Christianity when He returns. Paul preached against the divisions, but they didn't listen to him. Everybody wants to do things their way instead of God's way.

By falsely condemning me, you unwittingly condemn thousands and thousands from your own religion.

I don't condemn, however the bible does an excellent job of it. I just agree with the message.

Understanding the books of fiction in the bible merely requires a mind free from being controlled by societal pressures that force people to believe fabled miracles occurred; it requires using simple logic; and it requires being objective.
Most in your religion don't have these three things, including yourself.

Well, we shall soon see when our lives in the flesh has come to an end.

Not bragging on myself, but I don't have a holy spirit, yet I seem to know more about the bible than you, a supposed "holy spirit-filled" Christian. Why is that?

Yep, you really believe you do, and Satan thinks He knows more than God too............just saying, a Christian knows that it's impossible for an unbeliever to conquer a Christian, and it's also impossible for Satan to conquer God. My point is both the unbeliever and Satan are fools........says scripture.

 

[JayRob]

Believing in Christ guarantee you salvation, however it does not guarantee you rewards on judgment day. The righteous robe of Christians in heaven are made up of their good works.

Eventhough I'm not a believer in such nonsense, again you misinterpret scripture. The bible teaches that simply "believing" without works is useless. James says "faith without works is dead". In other words, believing without works is a dead belief. No holy spirit revealed that to me.

Read Job 38:4-7 first, and then read Genesis 1:26. You will find out that God and the angels are males. This is why Christ stated that if you've seen the Son you've seen the Father because Christ was created in the image of God; and humans are created in the image of their angelic body from the first earth age. Am I saying we were once a son of God/angel in Job 38:4-7? Yes, we were there with God in Job 38:4-7. This can be documented from John 3:3 in the Strong's Concordance, the words "born again" means to be "born from above", in other words to be born from heaven. Every human soul that has ever walked the earth was born from heaven. This is why God can make the statement in Jeremiah 1:5, and this is also why humans don't have access to more than 90% of their brain power. This memory was purposely blocked by God to prevent humans from remembering what happened in the first earth age when Satan rebelled, and lead billions of angels/one third away from God. Again, the only way you will ever understand any of this is unless you accept Christ's invitation.

First of all, just because all are angels are supposedly male, it nowhere says that they "look" the same.
Second, what does the way the two "gods" look have anything to do with the way angels look? Nothing. Angels were not created in "god's" image.
Third, nowhere in the bible does it say that "humans" were previously angels. This is another one of your Murray made up doctrines I presume.
Fourth, there's no need for me to understand material people like you just pull out of thin air, with no supporting scripture.
Fifth, you still can't show me where one verse in the bible says that ALL angels look the same.

.....because in stupidity and ignorance men divide that which is whole. God accounted for the division in His plan, and calls it the many member body of Christ. Each body part/denomination have different interpretations of scripture, however they all accept and believe Christ is the Savior of this world. Christ will overthrow the division in Christianity when He returns. Paul preached against the divisions, but they didn't listen to him. Everybody wants to do things their way instead of God's way.

More fables and scripture twisting. Why don't you blame the biblical authors for not being clear and concise. Why don't you blame your god for not directly coming down IN PERSON and explaining his so-called "word" on a weekly basis during his sabbaths? That will never happen because none of it belongs to any resurrected Jesus to begin with. It's all make-believe.

I don't condemn, however the bible does an excellent job of it. I just agree with the message.

Your condemnation has more validity than a book of mere fables with imaginary "gods" stolen from other religions. At least you are a real person.

Well, we shall soon see when our lives in the flesh has come to an end.

When my body dies, my spirit will live on, so there's no need for me to be involved in a resurrection. Don't know why I'm having to continue to remind you of this.

Yep, you really believe you do, and Satan thinks He knows more than God too............just saying, a Christian knows that it's impossible for an unbeliever to conquer a Christian, and it's also impossible for Satan to conquer God. My point is both the unbeliever and Satan are fools........says scripture.

Based on your posts and my posts, I KNOW I do. There's no doubt in my mind that my knowledge of the bible is more advanced than yours. I'm not bragging, just stating an obvious fact. This is why I can say what I say about it.

It's mighty interesting that you'd compare yourself to your own "god", while comparing me to a satan. It matters not anyhow because both are fictional entities, part of plagiarized stories concocted by ancient, illiterate, backward men, seeking answers to questions they could never know.

Not until "reason and science" came along were the real causes of diseases and weather phenomenon understood.
In other words we now know that evil spirits don't cause diseases, microscopic germs do. Evil spirits don't cause earthquakes, but slippage along faultlines and tectonic plates are the real causes.
These are things your biblical authors couldn't and didn't know.

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

Eventhough I'm not a believer in such nonsense, again you misinterpret scripture. The bible teaches that simply "believing" without works is useless. James says "faith without works is dead". In other words, believing without works is a dead belief. No holy spirit revealed that to me.

JayRob, the scripture states in order for any person to receive eternal life, they must accept Christ. How did I misinterpret that part of scripture? I know faith without works is dead, and that's why I posted the following in the previous post......"Believing in Christ guarantee you salvation, however it does not guarantee you rewards on judgment day. The righteous robe of Christians in heaven are made up of their good works."

First of all, just because all are angels are supposedly male, it nowhere says that they "look" the same.

What I mean by "look the same" is that God refers to all angels as men, in other words they all look the same......like men.

Second, what does the way the two "gods" look have anything to do with the way angels look? Nothing. Angels were not created in "god's" image.

What "two" gods are you talking about because I only know of one? Secondly, the verse I gave you has everything to do with what we're talking about. Take a closer look at the words "Us" and "Our" because those words refer to God and the angels. The face of a human is a copy of what their angelic face looked like in the first earth age, but the angelic face is perfected "without" any defects. Does that mean we're created in the image of God? No, we're created in our own angelic image just like Christ was created in the heavenly image of God. Read Isaiah 44:2 and Jeremiah 1:5 because it ties into Genesis 1:26.

Third, nowhere in the bible does it say that "humans" were previously angels. This is another one of your Murray made up doctrines I presume.

Yes it does, read Jeremiah 1:5. If you don't have Christ, it will be impossible for you to understand this hidden treasure.

Fourth, there's no need for me to understand material people like you just pull out of thin air, with no supporting scripture.

I posted chapters and verses, but I don't expect you to understand if you don't have Christ.

Fifth, you still can't show me where one verse in the bible says that ALL angels look the same.

I did, you just don't have eyes to see, and ears to hear........yet.

 

[Dr H..]

Look at the videos I previously posted.

So whats your point [doggone] the video's, what does the bible say, concerning angles using chariots?

 

[JayRob]

JayRob, the scripture states in order for any person to receive eternal life, they must accept Christ. How did I misinterpret that part of scripture? I know faith without works is dead, and that's why I posted the following in the previous post......"Believing in Christ guarantee you salvation, however it does not guarantee you rewards on judgment day. The righteous robe of Christians in heaven are made up of their good works."

You didn't say "faith without works is dead" until I corrected you on it. The fictional bible teaches that simply believing is not enough and that it won't save anyone. Believing guarantees no one anything. The bible says "the demons believe and tremble", but they're not guaranteed salvation.
Don't worry though, it's all make-believe anyhow.

What I mean by "look the same" is that God refers to all angels as men, in other words they all look the same......like men.

Even if you did mean that, still.....all men don't "look" the same. I'm still waiting on that scripture.

What "two" gods are you talking about because I only know of one?

Here you go again displaying your lack of biblical knowledge. Where was "god the father" when christ was here on earth? Wasn't he in heaven somewhere, while christ was on earth? If so, they are two SEPARATE entities. No need to go any further.

Secondly, the verse I gave you has everything to do with what we're talking about. Take a closer look at the words "Us" and "Our" because those words refer to God and the angels. The face of a human is a copy of what their angelic face looked like in the first earth age, but the angelic face is perfected "without" any defects. Does that mean we're created in the image of God? No, we're created in our own angelic image just like Christ was created in the heavenly image of God. Read Isaiah 44:2 and Jeremiah 1:5 because it ties into Genesis 1:26.

Again, you insist on taking simple scriptures totally out of it's simple meaning. Where is the scripture specifically stating that "humans were once angels"?
Here's what Isaiah 44:2 says, "This is what the LORD says— he who made you, who formed you in the womb, and who will help you: Do not be afraid, O Jacob, my servant, Jeshurun, whom I have chosen.

The above verse says not one word about humans once being angels. How you got that from this verse is beyond me.

Jeremiah 1:5 says, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew [a] you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

That verse says nothing about humans once being angels. It simply talks about the OT god setting Jeremiah apart for a specific duty. Nothing is said about any angels.

Yes it does, read Jeremiah 1:5. If you don't have Christ, it will be impossible for you to understand this hidden treasure.
I posted chapters and verses, but I don't expect you to understand if you don't have Christ.

The more you post, the more you prove that the bible is imaginary. No "holy spirit" if it were possible, would've inspired you to interpret those verses the way you did. Keep doing what you're doing.

I did, you just don't have eyes to see, and ears to hear........yet.

You DID show me the verse where humans were once angels? Either you're just flat out clueless or you're one of the most dishonest posters in this forum.
Again, you prove me right, that there's no special revelation via a holy spirit. If there were, you're making a mockery of it by your feeble interpretations of the bible and turning around and claiming that it was revealed to you by the holy spirit.
Isn't that called "blasphemy" for those who believe?

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

So whats your point [doggone] the video's, what does the bible say, concerning angles using chariots?

....look at the videos because the bible references are clearly stated in the videos.

 

[Dr H..]

RB


Negative, anyone can take a scripture and apply it to any situation. However, what’s printed in the bible does not validate the film. I read about the demons in Revelation, I can take the same scripture and make it fit individuals I know.

You DID show me the verse where humans were once angels? Either you're just flat out clueless or you're one of the most dishonest posters in this forum.

JR

Angles were never humans, they are created spiritual beings. They can take on the form of a human at the request of God to carry out a specific mission

The point I'm making is that all angels look the same in physical form, but not all carry the same power. Angels do not have wings attached to their physical body to fly. Now, angels do have wings, but those wings are of a chariot and horse.

Please post the scripture and the scripture that states Angels uses chariots to travel. Did Michael and Gabriel use a chariot?

RB

Dude you need to stay away from Murray, if he is teaching this none-sense.

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

You didn't say "faith without works is dead" until I corrected you on it. The fictional bible teaches that simply believing is not enough and that it won't save anyone. Believing guarantees no one anything. The bible says "the demons believe and tremble", but they're not guaranteed salvation.
Don't worry though, it's all make-believe anyhow.

No, you didn't correct me on something I already stated. Go back and read post #84.

Even if you did mean that, still.....all men don't "look" the same. I'm still waiting on that scripture.

Yes, all angels look the same.....like men. I've posted several verses of God stating that angels are men in previous posts. Did you read the verses? Just because you and I may differ in weight, height, and physical build doesn't neglect the fact that we are the same in gender.....men. The same goes for angels. They carry different power, but they all look the same physically. Show me a verse that says angels are not men.

Here you go again displaying your lack of biblical knowledge. Where was "god the father" when christ was here on earth? Wasn't he in heaven somewhere, while christ was on earth? If so, they are two SEPARATE entities. No need to go any further.

Isaiah 7:14 "Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign; Behold a virgin shall concieve, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."

The name "Immanuel" in the Hebrew tongue is "God with us". Look at it this way, I hold three offices on earth to my immediate family. I'm a Father to my children, a husband to my wife, and a son to my mother and Father. These three offices are ran by one person......not three. With that being said, look at the following verses.......John 14:9 Jesus replied, Have I been with all of you for so long a time, and do you not recognize and know Me yet, Philip? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say then, Show us the Father?

John 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in Me? What I am telling you I do not say on My own authority and of My own accord; but the Father Who lives continually in Me does the ([a]His) works (His own miracles, deeds of power).

John 14:11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me; or else believe Me for the sake of the [very] works themselves. [If you cannot trust Me, at least let these works that I do in My Father's name convince you.]

Again, you insist on taking simple scriptures totally out of it's simple meaning. Where is the scripture specifically stating that "humans were once angels"?
Here's what Isaiah 44:2 says, "This is what the LORD says— he who made you, who formed you in the womb, and who will help you: Do not be afraid, O Jacob, my servant, Jeshurun, whom I have chosen.

The above verse says not one word about humans once being angels. How you got that from this verse is beyond me.

Jeremiah 1:5 says, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew [a] you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

That verse says nothing about humans once being angels. It simply talks about the OT god setting Jeremiah apart for a specific duty. Nothing is said about any angels.

Yes it does, you just don't have eyes to see this hidden secret. In order to know someone before they were born into this world, that someone must have existed in a previous world......the first earth/heaven age.

The more you post, the more you prove that the bible is imaginary. No "holy spirit" if it were possible, would've inspired you to interpret those verses the way you did. Keep doing what you're doing.

Again, it's impossible for you to understand without the help of Christ. Receive Christ and be blessed!

You DID show me the verse where humans were once angels? Either you're just flat out clueless or you're one of the most dishonest posters in this forum.
Again, you prove me right, that there's no special revelation via a holy spirit. If there were, you're making a mockery of it by your feeble interpretations of the bible and turning around and claiming that it was revealed to you by the holy spirit.
Isn't that called "blasphemy" for those who believe?

We shall see. Just keep an eye on Daniel 11:20 because it applies to a world leader of today. Keep watching!

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

RB
Negative, anyone can take a scripture and apply it to any situation. However, what’s printed in the bible does not validate the film. I read about the demons in Revelation, I can take the same scripture and make it fit individuals I know.

DH, you're not logically thinking about Ezekiel's situation and the description he gave. Look at it this way. What do we humans call air planes? We call them "BIRDS". Are they actual "BIRDS"? No, we call them "BIRDS" because that's what they resemble. Ezekiel did the same thing when he was describing the wheel in which are called horses and chariots. What do we humans call the strength of a motor. We call it horse power. Does that mean we humans put the actual power of a horse in the motor? No, it means that's what we liken the power of a motor to........a horse. Take a look at the example below........

The Lockheed SR-71 is an advanced, long-range, Mach 3 strategic reconnaissance aircraft developed by Lockheed Skunk Works as a Black project. The SR-71 was unofficially named the Blackbird, and called the Habu by its crews, referring to an Okinawan species of pit viper. Clarence "Kelly" Johnson was responsible for many of the design's innovative concepts. A defensive feature of the aircraft was its high speed and operating altitude, whereby, if a surface-to-air missile launch were detected, standard evasive action was simply to accelerate. The SR-71 was in service from 1964 to 1998 as top secret reconnaissance aircraft. Only 32 SR-71's were built. Frequently called the Cold War Bird.
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/a_-mCPA_Gk0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/a_-mCPA_Gk0&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

You DID show me the verse where humans were once angels? Either you're just flat out clueless or you're one of the most dishonest posters in this forum.

Yes I did. You just don't like the scripture I gave. You should consider growing and maturing in the word.

Angles were never humans, they are created spiritual beings. They can take on the form of a human at the request of God to carry out a specific mission.

Why would angels have to take on the form of a human when the form of humans were created in the likeness of angels?

Please post the scripture and the scripture that states Angels uses chariots to travel. Did Michael and Gabriel use a chariot?

I posted it previously. Have you not read about Elisha and the servant? Did you not read the part about horses and chariots throughout the mountain?

 

[JayRob]

No, you didn't correct me on something I already stated. Go back and read post #84.

You WERE corrected, but I don't expect you to admit it. You stated that simply "believing GUARANTEES salvation." I detailed from your fiction book that "faith alone" does not save anyone.

Yes, all angels look the same.....like men. I've posted several verses of God stating that angels are men in previous posts. Did you read the verses? Just because you and I may differ in weight, height, and physical build doesn't neglect the fact that we are the same in gender.....men. The same goes for angels. They carry different power, but they all look the same physically. Show me a verse that says angels are not men.

Dude, everybody knows angels are pictured as being men, so your using that as a diversion is laughable. Just admit that you made a mistake and move on.
You ONLY brought up gender when I corrected you about the appearance of angels. You backtrack as a way of not admitting your errors. That's fine and dandy. I don't expect hypocrites to change their stripes. Even when you're clearly found to be mistaken, I don't recall you ever simply admitting to a mistake.

Isaiah 7:14 "Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign; Behold a virgin shall concieve, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."

The name "Immanuel" in the Hebrew tongue is "God with us". Look at it this way, I hold three offices on earth to my immediate family. I'm a Father to my children, a husband to my wife, and a son to my mother and Father. These three offices are ran by one person......not three.

First of all, the Isaiah verse has nothing to do with Jesus Christ at all. The word "virgin" means "young woman" and it was a prophecy that was fulfilled hundreds of years before Christ during the life of king Ahaz. You can't even get simple verses straight for crying out loud. I'll explain.....

The author of Matthew was trying to retrofit Jesus into a prophecy about a child who was to be born and called the name Immanuel. This tactic is called manufacturing a prophecy fulfillment and the author of Matthew was a master at doing it. He was a master of deception.
One of the problems with this is that the prophecy given by Isaiah was already fulfilled hundreds of years before Jesus supposed arrival on earth.

The birth and naming of the child Immanuel was to be a sign for king Ahaz that God was with his people who were about to be invaded by two rival kingdoms. This is clear when Isa 7:14 is put back into the context which the author of Matthew lifted it out of.

Isa 7:10-16 Moreover the LORD spake again unto Ahaz, saying,
Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above.
But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the LORD.
And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also?
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you (Ahaz) a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel (god IS with us, not "god with us").
Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings (referring to the kings to be defeated during Ahaz's reign).

This promise was kept by God as shown in 2 Kings 16:9.
Assyria defeated the two rival kings and Ahaz and his people would be safe.
2 Kings 16:9 And the king of Assyria hearkened unto him: for the king of Assyria went up against Damascus, and took it, and carried the people of it captive to Kir, and slew Rezin.
The child was born, called by the name Immanuel by his mother and the Assyrians defeated the two kings who threatened Ahaz and his people. The prophecy was fulfilled long before the author of Matthew dishonestly claimed that Jesus fulfilled it.
The author(s) of Matthew ignored all this because he only wanted one verse from Isaiah and that was Isa 7:14 which he wanted to use to give credibility to his tale about a "virgin" birth.

There are many problems associated with the deliberate misapplication of Isa 7:14 by the author of Matthew.
Also, keep in mind that Mary never called the name of her child Immanuel as required by the prophecy, but instead called him Jesus.
Luke 1:30-31 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

Matthew and Luke totally disagree. Matthew says Immanuel, Luke says Jesus. Total contradiction. No one ever named Christ Immanuel, which means "god is with us", not "god with us".

HOPE YOU LEARNED SOMETHING TODAY. I know you did, but you'll never admit to it.

Post to be continued......

 

[JayRob]

(cont'd)...

RB says:
With that being said, look at the following verses.......John 14:9 Jesus replied, Have I been with all of you for so long a time, and do you not recognize and know Me yet, Philip? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say then, Show us the Father?

Simply means they're of the same mindset, not that they're the SAME person. Simple, simple, simple.

John 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in Me? What I am telling you I do not say on My own authority and of My own accord; but the Father Who lives continually in Me does the ([a]His) works (His own miracles, deeds of power).

Again, simple comprehension is needed. Jesus said, "believe that I am IN the father and the father is IN me." He didn't say "I AM" the father. They were connected via the holy spirit. It's as simple as that.
The holy spirit didn't reveal that to me, common sense and comprehension of simple words revealed it.

John 14:11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me; or else believe Me for the sake of the [very] works themselves. [If you cannot trust Me, at least let these works that I do in My Father's name convince you.]

Where did Christ SAY that he WAS the father?! They are not one and the same person. Again he says, "I am IN the father and the father is IN me."

Yes it does, you just don't have eyes to see this hidden secret. In order to know someone before they were born into this world, that someone must have existed in a previous world......the first earth/heaven age.

RB, I really feel sorry for you. First, you claim that Isaiah 44:2 proves that humans were once angels, THEN you say that Jeremiah 1:5 does the same thing. You simply took your personal beliefs and transferred it to two verses having nothing to do with any angels.
I won't go so far as to call you intentionally dishonest, but neither am I ruling it out. You are however ignorant of what the verses mean.
Show me ONE credible Christian commentary who labels these verses as proof that humans were once angels.

Again, it's impossible for you to understand without the help of Christ. Receive Christ and be blessed!

You can't seem to understand WITH his help. You're proving more and more that such a thing as a holy spirit actually serves NOT to help with anything due to your error-filled posts. Your postings oftentimes are way out in left field and you don't seem to realize it. That's a shame, it really is.
The more you post such nonsense, as you're doing, the more you discredit a holy spirit providing you help with anything. Perhaps that can be construed as blasphemous on your part, so you might want to be a bit more careful of attributing your nonsensical interpretations as being inspired by a holy spirit.

We shall see. Just keep an eye on Daniel 11:20 because it applies to a world leader of today. Keep watching!

More nonsensical prophecies that's been used by religious folks for hundreds and hundreds of years to no avail. You're just one of the many folks believing and HOPING that what you say your book predicts, comes to pass. Same ole same ole.
The sooner you learn that it's fairytale, the better off you'll be.

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

You WERE corrected, but I don't expect you to admit it. You stated that simply "believing GUARANTEES salvation." I detailed from your fiction book that "faith alone" does not save anyone.

No you didn't. Go back and read post# 84 because I clearly stated "The righteous robe of Christians in heaven are made up of their good works." What part of that don't you understand?

Dude, everybody knows angels are pictured as being men, so your using that as a diversion is laughable. Just admit that you made a mistake and move on.
You ONLY brought up gender when I corrected you about the appearance of angels. You backtrack as a way of not admitting your errors. That's fine and dandy. I don't expect hypocrites to change their stripes. Even when you're clearly found to be mistaken, I don't recall you ever simply admitting to a mistake.

I'm just stating facts, and if the facts offend you then so be it. I will not change what I know to be true. Again, this is above your understanding of the word, and I don't expect you to understand God's word if you're not a Christian. You must accept Christ before you can grow in the word. Stop putting the savior off and accept His will and way.

First of all, the Isaiah verse has nothing to do with Jesus Christ at all. The prophecy was fulfilled long before the author of Matthew dishonestly claimed that Jesus fulfilled it. The author(s) of Matthew ignored all this because he only wanted one verse from Isaiah and that was Isa 7:14 which he wanted to use to give credibility to his tale about a "virgin" birth. HOPE YOU LEARNED SOMETHING TODAY...........

Matthew 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Matthew 1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

I know you truly believe Isaiah 7:14 has nothing to do with Christ, but it has everything to do with Christ, you just can't see it. I'm still praying God will open your eyes to truth because you are so wrong if you can't see Christ in Isaiah 7:14. Yes, I learned something today. I learned there is nothing a non-Christian can teach me in the word. Get saved and be blessed!

Simply means they're of the same mindset, not that they're the SAME person. Simple, simple, simple.

Of course they are of the same mindset because they are the same entity.

Again, simple comprehension is needed. Jesus said, "believe that I am IN the father and the father is IN me." He didn't say "I AM" the father. They were connected via the holy spirit. It's as simple as that.
The holy spirit didn't reveal that to me, common sense and comprehension of simple words revealed it.

Again, what part of Matthew 1:23 don't you understand? Matthew 1:23 clearly state "they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."

RB, I really feel sorry for you.

Why, I'm a saved man who loves the Lord. I should feel sorry for your poor miserable soul because you hate God. Why do you hate your Creator?

First, you claim that Isaiah 44:2 proves that humans were once angels, THEN you say that Jeremiah 1:5 does the same thing. You simply took your personal beliefs and transferred it to two verses having nothing to do with any angels.
I won't go so far as to call you intentionally dishonest, but neither am I ruling it out. You are however ignorant of what the verses mean.
Show me ONE credible Christian commentary who labels these verses as proof that humans were once angels.

I can't help if you can't see that which is hidden. Accept Christ and pray for understanding.

You can't seem to understand WITH his help. You're proving more and more that such a thing as a holy spirit actually serves NOT to help with anything due to your error-filled posts. Your postings oftentimes are way out in left field and you don't seem to realize it. That's a shame, it really is.
The more you post such nonsense, as you're doing, the more you discredit a holy spirit providing you help with anything. Perhaps that can be construed as blasphemous on your part, so you might want to be a bit more careful of attributing your nonsensical interpretations as being inspired by a holy spirit. More nonsensical prophecies........

Just keep your eyes on Daniel 11:20 because it will happen to a leader who's trying to raise taxes to the extreme. The "TEA PARTY" in this country is not by accident. Pay close attention to those who are fighting against high taxation!

 

[Dr H..]

Having been in the Air Force, we do not call aircrafts “Birds†we call them by their code name! You have been looking at too much TV. I do not know what plans you have been around, but a F14 looking nothing like a Robin or a Jay Bird. I understand all the illogical examples you have given. However, that’s why I have said in the past that Ezekiel and others uses figurative language.
Now, where does it state in the bible that angels use chariots for transportations and they have landing gears.

Where does is state that angles were created in the likeness of angels. Now according to Genesis 1:26, 27. “Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.â€

Nowhere in the bible does it state that man was created in the likeness of angles, post the scripture.

Yes I have read 2 Kings 6:17, but this particular event does not support the idea of angles utilizing chariots for transportation. You cannot take one event and used it for the foundation of every event. Now, did Gabriel use a chariot to travel and announce the birth of Christ, did the angels that appeared to Abraham use chariots.

Angles “Look Like Men†Snow me the scripture, they are created spiritual beings and no one but God know what they look like, as I said that can take on the appearance of a man, when necessary. However, what do they look like before they take on the appearance of a man?

What does Michael, the Cherubim “Winged creatures†Lucifer; Seraphim “angels with four wings and four faces (human, lion, bull and eagle)â€, and Gabriel look like.

I have never seen a man with wings or a face lion, bull or eagle.

 

[JayRob]

I'm just stating facts, and if the facts offend you then so be it. I will not change what I know to be true. Again, this is above your understanding of the word, and I don't expect you to understand God's word if you're not a Christian. You must accept Christ before you can grow in the word. Stop putting the savior off and accept His will and way.

No, don't change anything you've taken from pagan doctrine because in essence, Christianity's mostly pagan anyhow because that's where it's derived. There are some good things attached to Christianity like love and service, but that other stuff is mostly fable and derived from other religions.

Matthew 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Matthew 1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

RB, I KNOW you read my above post disputing Matthew's prophecy taken from Isaiah 7. I'm sure you understood it as well, that's why you didn't comment on it. There's truth to it, truth that you can't refute or you obviously would've tried. If you can refute it and prove it to be untrue, PLEASE do so. I welcome you to do so. My mind is open to learning, how about yours?

I know you truly believe Isaiah 7:14 has nothing to do with Christ, but it has everything to do with Christ, you just can't see it. I'm still praying God will open your eyes to truth because you are so wrong if you can't see Christ in Isaiah 7:14. Yes, I learned something today. I learned there is nothing a non-Christian can teach me in the word. Get saved and be blessed!

Not only do I know it, but I believe you do to. Again, show me that my post is untrue.

Of course they are of the same mindset because they are the same entity.

So who was Christ praying to when he was on the cross? Who supposedly raised him up? If what you're saying is true, that they were the same PERSON, this has to mean that Christ was never dead to begin with simply because a dead man can't raise himself from the dead.

Again, what part of Matthew 1:23 don't you understand? Matthew 1:23 clearly state "they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."

RB, you took one verse from Isaiah 7:14 without combining it with the verses before and after it. That's how you do research in the bible. Isaiah was talking about a woman giving birth to a child, then naming him Immanuel (meaning "god is with us"), to show Ahaz that the prophecy was to come to pass about two kings being defeated. The prophecy came to pass during Ahaz's time.
Whomever wrote the book of Matthew simply took a verse and falsely used it to predict Jesus's coming. That verse has long ago proven to be wrong. Matthew 1:23 has nothing to do with a prohecy concerning Jesus.

Why, I'm a saved man who loves the Lord. I should feel sorry for your poor miserable soul because you hate God. Why do you hate your Creator?

No misery or hate here because it makes no sense at all to hate something that's fiction.

 

[Dr H..]

The Truth is “whether people like it or not†Christianity, does have a lot of “Pagan†background. Because the foundation of Christianity is derived from Judaism which is a combination of many beliefs, here is a prime example “giving or tithing, sacrificing and circumcision†this was practiced by Abraham and others, long before Christianity or Judaism. Now, where Abraham learned this ritual, the bible does not say. But, we do know the Egyptians were practicing circumcision prior too Moses. That’s where Moses (Hebrews) learned the practice, which was cleanliness. And there were certain food the Egyptians would not eat, interesting enough these are the same foods listed for the Hebrews.

What God did with the Hebrews (Judaism) he took some of the same practices they were familiar with and moved them from a “Pagan Practice†to a spiritual concept? Here is a prime example; circumcision was an agreement between “Only†between God and the Hebrews (OT). In the NT God took the same concept instead of circumcising the male organ, we are to perform the same operation on our hearts [Romans 2], for the same reason.

Genesis 49: 7-8, states that all the elders of Pharaoh's house and all the elders of the land of Egypt…….
Look at the world elder; this was never used among the Hebrews, prior to being in Egypt. However, after they departed from Egypt, is common. Now, the usage of the same word is part of Christianity.


Individuals can argue the scriptures, but some fail to understand that God takes whatever a person is familiar with “remove†the heathen concept and replace it with a spiritual concept. The Egyptian’s had a number of practices that was shifted into Hebrew practices, that just common sense. Whenever a culture spent hundreds of years with another culture there are certain “practices and saying†that will be transferred from one culture to another.

This is the scary part about history and religion during the early civilizations, there is not a man living that “was there†so a lot of this documentation we read about hoe the Egyptians worship hundreds of gods or Gods, is only what a few are saying. I cannot read Hieroglyphic or Ancient Hebrew; therefore we [inclusive] take what being printed as the truth. Europeans, has a history of telling lies in order to make themselves look good. Last week I read an article that stated that “Black is more than likely than whites to have arthritis†now what kind of sense does that make?

I understand why the Egyptians and other cultures say they believe in a God of the Sun, Moon and Trees, after all, God made all of them, therefore he is the owner of all. But, leave it to the Europeans, “God Bless Their Soul†they are under the assumption that other cultures are worshipping someone other than the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. So we have to be careful when we say Christianity is this and that.



I love the God of rain; snow; sleet; sunshine; moon; sun; wetlands and so on.

 

[JayRob]

The Truth is “whether people like it or not†Christianity, does have a lot of “Pagan†background. Because the foundation of Christianity is derived from Judaism which is a combination of many beliefs, here is a prime example “giving or tithing, sacrificing and circumcision†this was practiced by Abraham and others, long before Christianity or Judaism. Now, where Abraham learned this ritual, the bible does not say. But, we do know the Egyptians were practicing circumcision prior too Moses. That’s where Moses (Hebrews) learned the practice, which was cleanliness. And there were certain food the Egyptians would not eat, interesting enough these are the same foods listed for the Hebrews.

Dr. H, I understand that you're trying to minimize the impact paganism has on Christianity, however what you posted above is only the proverbial "tip of the iceberg" when it comes to the glaring similarities Christianity has with other religions.
The god of Christianity is virtually a carbon copy of several pagan religions. For you to merely minimize the similarities to just circumcision and a few other characteristics seems to me like a copout and excuse to ease the burden of not explaining that most of Christianity's history is derived from paganism.

What God did with the Hebrews (Judaism) he took some of the same practices they were familiar with and moved them from a “Pagan Practice†to a spiritual concept? Here is a prime example; circumcision was an agreement between “Only†between God and the Hebrews (OT). In the NT God took the same concept instead of circumcising the male organ, we are to perform the same operation on our hearts [Romans 2], for the same reason.

Again, you're minimizing the similarities as if they boil down to only being a few. The truth of the matter is that the characteristics of the Old Testament gods, the New Testament gods, the stories of the flood, of Noah, of the exodus, of the temples, of the sacrifices, of the rituals, of the holy days, of the names of gods, of Adam and Eve and much more.....it's clear that the major characteristics of BOTH biblical testaments were copied, plagiarized and called Christian.

Genesis 49: 7-8, states that all the elders of Pharaoh's house and all the elders of the land of Egypt…….
Look at the world elder; this was never used among the Hebrews, prior to being in Egypt. However, after they departed from Egypt, is common. Now, the usage of the same word is part of Christianity.

Individuals can argue the scriptures, but some fail to understand that God takes whatever a person is familiar with “remove†the heathen concept and replace it with a spiritual concept. The Egyptian’s had a number of practices that was shifted into Hebrew practices, that just common sense. Whenever a culture spent hundreds of years with another culture there are certain “practices and saying†that will be transferred from one culture to another.

It's one thing to copy bits and pieces of a culture or religion, but to take on major parts of another, THEN turn around and label the religion you STOLE the information from as being pagan, is highly dishonest.
The Catholic church has had to eat much crow because of the glaring similarities it has with other religions. The OT and NT authors copied major parts of other religions, then called it by another name, then labelled the religion they stole from as being pagan.

This is the scary part about history and religion during the early civilizations, there is not a man living that “was there†so a lot of this documentation we read about hoe the Egyptians worship hundreds of gods or Gods, is only what a few are saying. I cannot read Hieroglyphic or Ancient Hebrew; therefore we [inclusive] take what being printed as the truth. Europeans, has a history of telling lies in order to make themselves look good. Last week I read an article that stated that “Black is more than likely than whites to have arthritis†now what kind of sense does that make?

Dr. H, the Europeans preserved much of the Christian religion, so why are you biting the hand that fed you a religion you've come to know and love? You can't have your cake and eat it too.
You say that they have a history of lying, but you invite yourself to a religion preserved by them as if it's all true. Did it ever occur to you that they could be lying about their religion called Christianity?

I understand why the Egyptians and other cultures say they believe in a God of the Sun, Moon and Trees, after all, God made all of them, therefore he is the owner of all. But, leave it to the Europeans, “God Bless Their Soul†they are under the assumption that other cultures are worshipping someone other than the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. So we have to be careful when we say Christianity is this and that.
I love the God of rain; snow; sleet; sunshine; moon; sun; wetlands and so on.

The same gods worshipped by the Egyptians such as Osiris, Isis and Horus were copied down and lebelled as Christian. Osiris=the father; Isis=Mary and Horus=Christ. The Egyptian trinity is the Christian trinity.

 

[Dr H..]

Dr. H, I understand that you're trying to minimize the impact paganism has on Christianity,

Read and comprenend what I said!