Open Enrollment: The HBCU educational suicidal move

[Panther88]

I've had a moment or two to analyze the ridiculousness and stupidity that has come to fruition as being a detriment rather than a university level help.

I returned in time to think what the non-integrated folk did, as I’m sure, all who applied and had funding were allowed to enter the doors for advanced training. But, the mindset then is quite differing from what I’ve seen recent. Back then, it was a given that ONLY the best who had merit, academic background, et al would attend undergrad. If you weren’t in that number, you didn’t matriculate through the HBCU system(s). Somehow, immediately post integration, the idealism of “any†who tried and w/out merit, w/out record of academic ability, et al are and were allowed to enter the hallowed doors. Since the word “accountability†has been introduced to HBCUs over the last ~20 years (accountability of graduation %s, alumni participation ($), fiscal management, academic-accreditation, et al), I now see the trend FINALLY reversing itself.

I think the olders were losing the talented black kids en masse to the newly created integrated environments @ PWCUs that they just allowed any and all admittance JUST to report overall #s whereas the incoming budgeted funding wouldn’t decrease. :read: I have a very, very strong feeling that if the same accountable vices today were in place in the late 60s/early 70s, HBCU population numbers would’ve been much, much lower than what they were during those times. At this time, we’re witnessing a resurgence of sorts of HBCUs exerting themselves w/ a talented pool of students (finally). I assert the students, overall @ my undergrad and that other HBCU grad school lol, who were in or near my era, were, for lack of better wording: academic trash. :| PV sported and fostered a mind-blowing and whopping 13% graduation rate w/ nothing but “smiles†all day every day by ‘staff.’ :retard: How dumb. :| Perception is a muthafukka’ to change and it doesn’t happen overnight unless one has the right students in place to make it happen. Hats off to the current student base @ HBCUs. :tup:

 

[jsupop33]

Well at one point, pretty much everyone was open enrollment (some of the elite, private schools were basically closed admissions). Only certain people could afford to go to college. As more and more kids could afford to go and the feds begin kicking in money, most smart schools moved to closed their admissions to preserve the quality of their student body. Many HBCU's dropped the ball and stayed open. The old guard elite black schools (Howard, Clark, Spelman, Morehouse) and other smart schools were either already closed admissions or they closed them.

As I mentioned months ago, we dropped the ball.

 

[Panther88]

I wonder #1, when did PWCUs transition to closed admissions based upon merit/academic prowess/standardized testing/et al and #2, why the HBCUs were so slow to get on board w/ mainstream ideology?

 

[The Founder]

I know more successful people who benefited from open enrollment than the students who are presently at our HBCUs. I believe in open enrollment because if you look at how the legislators are not putting money in public schools how do you expect a kid to make the bar of closed admissions.

 

[Panther88]

I know more successful people who benefited from open enrollment than the students who are presently at our HBCUs. I believe in open enrollment because if you look at how the <b>legislators are not putting money in public schools how do you expect a kid to make the bar of closed admissions.</b>

That's an issue Founder. I'd expect the larger urban districts to have more $$$$ towards resources to help their kids but I'm not seeing that from top to bottom (speaking ONLY of the dallas isd, ft worth isd, and houston isds). The suburban school districts in certain "areas" :read: are kicking those larger districts in the ass up and down the board, w/ respect to academics and even moreso in athletics. I do believe it's the required effort(s) of the larger districts to come up to the standard bar that's been fostered and maintained in the more suburban areas. It's no fault of the larger, better equipped, and more resourceful suburban districts that they're doing their job while the others seemingly aren't, from top to bottom. :read:

Darwinism, perhaps? :read:

 

[jsupop33]

I know more successful people who benefited from open enrollment than the students who are presently at our HBCUs. I believe in open enrollment because if you look at how the legislators are not putting money in public schools how do you expect a kid to make the bar of closed admissions.

Open enrollment killed our academic reputations. The numbers simply don't support that policy being a good thing. Why do you think our schools are turning away from it. Ask Texas Southern or Southern would they ever go back to open enrollment.

 

[The Founder]

Open enrollment killed our academic reputations. The numbers simply don't support that policy being a good thing. Why do you think our schools are turning away from it. Ask Texas Southern or Southern would they ever go back to open enrollment.

Talented 10th eh...

 

[Panther88]

Talented 10th eh...

Shit happens... get in or get lost. :read:

We're in america, survival of the fittest. All that kum-bah-yah hand-holding brothers-keeper bullshit is dead and gone once doors became open that were once very closed based upon merit, I think.

 

[The Founder]

Failing high schools yield failing students who can't get an education because colleges who once helped these students no longer feel obligated to assist. Therefore our society becomes enthralled with failures who seek out negative activities that lead to negative consequences, hence fueling poverty, prisons, and the graveyard.

 

[jsupop33]

There is a place for those kids, it is called community college. Asking a kid to have a 2.5 or 2.7 and a 16 ACT score in high school is not asking for a lot.

If you let ten kids in who are unprepared, they all take out student loans and only two finish, what good have you done?

 

[The Founder]

There is a place for those kids, it is called community college. Asking a kid to have a 2.5 or 2.7 and a 16 ACT score in high school is not asking for a lot.

If you let ten kids in who are unprepared, they all take out student loans and only two finish, what good have you done?

Pops... you sound like beaurucrat(sp). You know what the governor of Louisiana is promoting? Jobs requiring technical skills while promoting priavate schools and destroying the public school system in the process. Meanwhile cutting funding to Louisiana HBCUs by supporting closed admissions. Meanwhile telling schools like Grambling to increase tuition and decreasing the general fund.

It's a total conspiracy to destroy that kid from an unstable home to get out of that environment.

The sad part is you need 2.5 to get in, in some schools and 2.0 to graduate.....

 

[Panther88]

Failing high schools yield failing students who can't get an education because colleges who once helped these students no longer feel obligated to assist. Therefore our society becomes enthralled with failures who seek out negative activities that lead to negative consequences, hence fueling poverty, prisons, and the graveyard.

Aren't community colleges around for all that Founder?

 

[jsupop33]

Founder, in 2007, Grambling had a 17% Cohort Default Rate, before Texas Southern closed admissions, they had a 21% Cohort Default rate at one point. That means 17% of the kids leaving your school are defaulting on their student loans and basically committing financial suicide. The national average is around 7% and the SWAC hovers around 11%. The Feds are hot at for-profits for having CDR's in the 20's right now.

My question to you is simply who does it benefit to let kids into your school are not academically prepared and let them take out loans knowing that it is an 80-85% chance they won't finish.

I know that there are big problems in K-12 but it is not the job of an University to try and fix those problems. That is simply not the mission of Higher Education in this country. I agree that we need to fix K-12 but you don't do that through lowering your requirements for admissions at the University level.

 

[Panther88]

there are big problems in K-12 but it is not the job of an University to try and fix those problems.

lol Just sayin'.

 

[Kendrick]

Pops... you sound like beaurucrat(sp). You know what the governor of Louisiana is promoting? Jobs requiring technical skills while promoting priavate schools and destroying the public school system in the process. .

The same thing is happening in Chicago, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Detroit and a number of other cities and states.

 

[The Founder]

Pops you can throw out all the stats you want but education is at the point of swim or drown.....I just don't believe close admissions is the key. Case in point I graduated from high school with a 3.6 but an ACT score of 12. Enrolled at Grambling and because of my GPA the admissions director looked at me "holistically" rather than a test score. Same thing in graduate school with the GRE. Simply put I do not take test well.

With todays standards...I would not have been able to enroll in regular college.

Then you have beaurucrats(sp) who speak against "teaching the test." Education in America is all fugged up because folks have a short memory.

 

[Kendrick]

Pops you can throw out all the stats you want but education is at the point of swim or drown.....I just don't believe close admissions is the key. Case in point I graduated from high school with a 3.6 but an ACT score of 12. Enrolled at Grambling and because of my GPA the admissions director looked at me "holistically" rather than a test score. Same thing in graduate school with the GRE. Simply put I do not take test well.

With todays standards...I would not have been able to enroll in regular college.

Then you have beaurucrats(sp) who speak against "teaching the test." Education in America is all fugged up because folks have a short memory.

Education is messed up because the corporatists are too involved.

 

[Panther88]

Education is messed up because the corporatists are too involved.

Actually, I think the converse is occurring and the corporatists are not involved in those lower-performing areas. :read:

This issue... it's quite complex. I still don't think it fair to those who sacrificed and did overly well to be subjected to whatever those who didn't follow suit could possibly impose upon them w/ their presence. :read:

 

[Kendrick]

Actually, I think the converse is occurring and the corporatists are not involved in those lower-performing areas. :read:

This issue... it's quite complex. I still don't think it fair to those who sacrificed and did overly well to be subjected to whatever those who didn't follow suit could possibly impose upon them w/ their presence. :read:

Let me somewhat retract my previous statement. Education is in peril due in large part because of the poverty created by politicians who are beholden to corporatists. This relationship has had a devastating affect on individual communities and education systems, which affect our children. Right now, as far as higher education is concerned, we are living in a time where it is apparent that access to such education is becoming exclusionary.

Even at the high school and elementary level, if one isn't in a charter or private school, the chance at getting a quality education that prepares students for college and/or the workforce is not very realistic due to all sorts of political, social and economic factors.

 

[jsupop33]

Pops you can throw out all the stats you want but education is at the point of swim or drown.....I just don't believe close admissions is the key. Case in point I graduated from high school with a 3.6 but an ACT score of 12. Enrolled at Grambling and because of my GPA the admissions director looked at me "holistically" rather than a test score. Same thing in graduate school with the GRE. Simply put I do not take test well.

With todays standards...I would not have been able to enroll in regular college.

Then you have beaurucrats(sp) who speak against "teaching the test." Education in America is all fugged up because folks have a short memory.

There are always individual success stories and have a 3.6 gpa and 12 ACT score is not that the same as a kid coming out with a 2.1 and a 12 ACT score. One shows that a kid is not a good test taker and the other shows that a kid just didn't handle business in high school. I wouldn't have a problem letting some kids in who are below standard based on individual interviews and other vetting process but just letting people in because they finished high school, I don't think is a good idea. Yes, I am a little darwinistic but I remember busting my arse to study in high school.

 

[Panther88]

I remember busting my arse to study in high school.

That's why I said earlier it isn't fair to those, who were genuine and sincere in their academic pursuits, to be subjected to those who were not.

 

[Panther88]

the chance at getting a quality education that prepares students for college and/or the workforce is not very realistic due to all sorts of political, social and economic factors.

That I do agree w/. Not trying to sound 'funny' but I've been studying varying areas around varying areas *whistling* around Texas. Seems like the "red" counties students/schools far exceed those "blue" areas (the mainstays) overall. :read: Very, very compelling.

 

[The Founder]

There are always individual success stories and have a 3.6 gpa and 12 ACT score is not that the same as a kid coming out with a 2.1 and a 12 ACT score. One shows that a kid is not a good test taker and the other shows that a kid just didn't handle business in high school. I wouldn't have a problem letting some kids in who are below standard based on individual interviews and other vetting process but just letting people in because they finished high school, I don't think is a good idea. Yes, I am a little darwinistic but I remember busting my arse to study in high school.

I feel where you are coming from its just that I believe education starts in elementary school and at the present time with so many failing schools and some politicians STEALING from the public schools....closed admissions is biting minorities in the ass. I call it stealing because that's what it is when you supply vouchers. So those poor kids going to failing schools who cannot get into the public colleges because they lack the basics.....not even motivated to go to a community college because the failing school never put it on their mind.

What happens to them?

 

[jsupop33]

I feel where you are coming from its just that I believe education starts in elementary school and at the present time with so many failing schools and some politicians STEALING from the public schools....closed admissions is biting minorities in the ass. I call it stealing because that's what it is when you supply vouchers. So those poor kids going to failing schools who cannot get into the public colleges because they lack the basics.....not even motivated to go to a community college because the failing school never put it on their mind.

What happens to them?

Founder, just cause a kid goes to a failing school doesnt mean they have to fail. As far as not being motivated to go to CC. You can't teach ambition or drive. If a kid is not motivated for a CC then how will they be motivated for a 4 year school.

 

[The Founder]

All I'm saying is the educational system is broken from the basics and by making it harder to go to college is not a solution. I don't know...