Judgement call - Late timeout sends Mavericks' tempers flaring


Jafus (Thinker)

Well-Known Member
Judgement call
Late timeout sends Mavericks' tempers flaring


Posted: Monday June 19, 2006 1:03AM; Updated: Monday June 19, 2006 2:46AM


MIAMI (AP) -- Mark Cuban has plenty more reasons to be furious with NBA officials.

From his perspective, referees made two huge mistakes before hitting his Dallas Mavericks with an unwanted timeout during the closing moments of their 101-100 overtime loss to the Miami Heat in Game 5 of the NBA finals on Sunday night.

Cuban said replays show that referees missed a backcourt violation against Dwyane Wade at the start of his final drive to the basket. The Dallas owner also believes Wade fouled the Mavericks' Jason Terry before drawing the contact that led to his winning free throws with 1.9 seconds left.

For the Mavericks, those incidents overshadowed what seemed like the obvious source of their anger: Being given their final timeout between Wade's foul shots, instead of after, when they could've moved the ball to midcourt and had a chance to set up a final shot.

"I care less about the timeout," Cuban said. "The error in my mind occurred before then."

Asked if it was the collision that Terry jumped up from screaming about being shoved, Cuban said: "You mean when he pushed him? I don't know. I guess that's not a call. I guess that's not a foul."

Dallas star Dirk Nowitzki, who ended up being charged with the foul on Wade's drive, said he thought "Dwyane pushed off like three guys to get to the basket."

After Wade made another free throw following the timeout, Dallas guard Devin Harris missed a desperation heave. When the buzzer sounded, the Mavericks unleashed their anger.

Cuban, who was wearing the jersey of suspended forward Jerry Stackhouse, ran onto the court and screamed at official Joe DeRosa, then went to the scorer's table and stared down NBA commissioner David Stern and other league officials. Cuban then went up the tunnel toward their aisle and kept screaming and staring.

Stern made his way out, but Cuban didn't let up. Considering he's been fined well over $1 million -- including $200,000 this postseason alone -- his tab could rise again before Game 6 in Dallas on Tuesday night.

Players were irate, too.

Nowitzki, who scored 20 points including a tough jumper that put Dallas up by one point with 9.1 seconds left, kicked the ball into the stands as he left the court. On his way to the locker room, he slammed against a stationary bike then kicked at something else. Josh Howard, who called the timeout, threw off his headband in disgust as he left the court.

"Josh Howard goes to Joe DeRosa and not only once, but twice asks for a timeout," referee Joe Crawford told a pool reporter. "Forced to call it, simple as that."

When told by a reporter what Crawford said, Howard became so agitated that he had to be taken out of the locker room to calm down. Cuban came in when Howard returned.

"It's common sense -- what would I tell him timeout for?" Howard said after gathering his emotions.

The Mavericks went to the foul line 25 times. So did Wade. The entire Heat team went 49 times.

"I don't know," Cuban said. "I guess they got fouled more."

Said Harris: "It's not like we're not going to the basket."

Mavericks coach Avery Johnson refused to answer questions about the Terry-Wade contact, repeatedly asking his interrogator what he thought. Terry said he couldn't comment.

"We have to watch the film and see," he said.

Asked if the refs explained the non-call to him, Cuban said: "No, they don't do that here. That's unfortunate."

Cuban was standing against a wall, shaking his head while gathering his thoughts before speaking to reporters when assistant coach Larry Riley alerted him to the missed backcourt violation.

"You can't be established in the frontcourt, then jump into the backcourt," Cuban said after watching a replay. "My understanding from the rule book is, if you are going to catch the ball in the backcourt, you have to be in the backcourt to catch it. You can't be established into the backcourt after you catch it or that's a backcourt violation."

The Mavericks came into the game already furious over the decision to suspend Stackhouse because of hard foul in Game 4.

This latest incident, and possible league action against Cuban, makes things even more interesting as the Heat take a 3-2 series lead to Dallas for Game 6 on Tuesday night.

"This is going to leave a bitter taste in everyone's mouth," Howard said. "We're going to come out and play hard in Game 6 and Game 7."

Copyright 2006 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
 

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I was wondering about that backcourt call...there must be something in the rulebook that Cuban is missing, because it was too blatant for it to have just been a mistake by the refs.
 
arrogant white boys with money...they can get away with alot when it comes to running their mouths...if Cuban was black a muzzle will be on him
 
Y'all don't like Cuban because you're pulling for the Heat.When you've got Mark Cuban type money,you can talk until you're blue in the face.
 
Well after Tuesday night...Dallas can continue to whine and moan about that call while they're out fishing. This team has been demoralized. They're done!!! Stick a fork in em!!!
 
Butch Wms. said:
Y'all don't like Cuban because you're pulling for the Heat.When you've got Mark Cuban type money,you can talk until you're blue in the face.

I'm not pulling for either team because I'm a fan of both and actually also a fan of Mark Cuban. They just need to STFU and go back to Dallas and play. Dirk is shooting 30% and nobody can guard Wade. That's why they're losing. They're gonna get all of the calls in Dallas anyway.
 
I think it should be noted, no matter how poor or how rich, if one believes they have truly been (wronged) treated unjust in a particular incident, one should articulate their thoughts on the subject no matter how trivial or unwarranted others think it may be.
 
Jafus (Thinker) said:
I think it should be noted, no matter how poor or how rich, if one believes they have truly been (wronged) treated unjust in a particular incident, one should articulate their thoughts on the subject no matter how trivial or unwarranted others think it may be.

You are right!
 
Cuban was standing against a wall, shaking his head while gathering his thoughts before speaking to reporters when assistant coach Larry Riley alerted him to the missed backcourt violation.

"You can't be established in the frontcourt, then jump into the backcourt," Cuban said after watching a replay. "My understanding from the rule book is, if you are going to catch the ball in the backcourt, you have to be in the backcourt to catch it. You can't be established into the backcourt after you catch it or that's a backcourt violation."


e. Any ball out-of-bounds in a team?s
frontcourt or at the midcourt line
cannot be passed into the backcourt.
On all backcourt and midcourt
violations, the ball shall be awarded to
the opposing team at the midcourt line,
and must be passed into the frontcourt.

EXCEPTION: During the last two
minutes of the fourth period and/or any
overtime period, the ball may be passed
anywhere (frontcourt or backcourt) on
the court
.
 
PsychoJag said:
I'm not pulling for either team because I'm a fan of both and actually also a fan of Mark Cuban. They just need to STFU and go back to Dallas and play. Dirk is shooting 30% and nobody can guard Wade. That's why they're losing. They're gonna get all of the calls in Dallas anyway.
Thank you PsychoJag, and thanks bluedog.

Let the record show, I'm a Cuban and Mavs fan myself and can't stand David Stern's incompetent arse myself, but I always pull for the East teams (with a LIMITED FEW exceptions). All this whining is not what champions are made of. Dallas is not acting like they are champs of anything, but beeyotching and moaning. That's too much of a distraction. Right now they are their own worst enemy. Do you think when Miami loses or lost games 1 & 2, they went ranting and raving about the refs? Sure they had some complaints, but they mainly put the MAIN BLAME squarely on themselves. The Mavs need to STFU and play. All this complaining is killing the Finals.
 

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Been trying to tell yall this for years. Stern is a hands on Commissioner. He influences how the games will be called. The Rockets head coach almost got ran out of the NBA for saying so publically. Anybody can look at how the NBA has been called for the past 20 years and see that something fishy is going on.

From Magic/Bird, to Pistons on Jordan, to the Lakers/Pistons Series 2004, to now. Stern directs the NBA and dares anyone to say anything. You dont think it was a coincedince Ewing ended up in New York do you...and on and on....blah blah blah. dont be surprised if Lebron goes to New York with the help of a lil influence from the front office.

And whoever deleted my first post :angry:
bushfinger.gif
 
bluedog,

Interesting!! Good Point!!

They will surely call Cuban out on it if his comment is incorrect.

Section I-Player
The player is out-of-bounds when he touches the floor or any object on or outside a boundary. For location of a player in the air, his position is that from which he last touched the floor.

I believe the question at hand is. Can the player in the frontcourt catch ball in the air and land in the backcourt with out ever first have established original position in the backcourt? I believe Cuban is suggesting that the player must be established in either the frontcourt or backcourt and then precede to catch the ball.
 
Section F - Frontcourt/Backcourt
1. A team's frontcourt consists of that part of the court between its endline and the nearer edge of the midcourt line, including the basket and inbounds part of the backboard.
2. A team's backcourt consists of the entire midcourt line and the rest of the court to include the opponent's basket and inbounds part of the backboard.
3. A ball being held by a player: (1) is in the frontcourt if neither the ball nor the player is touching the backcourt, (2) is in the backcourt if either the ball or player is touching the backcourt.
4. A ball being dribbled is (1) in the frontcourt when the ball and both feet of the player are in the frontcourt, (2) in the backcourt if the ball or either foot of the player is in the backcourt.
5. The ball is considered in the frontcourt once it has broken the plane of the midcourt line and is not in player control.
6. The team on offense must bring the ball across the midcourt line within 8 seconds. No additional 10-second count is permitted in the backcourt.
EXCEPTION: (1) kicked ball, (2) punched ball, (3) technical foul on the defensive team, (4) delay-of-game warning on the defensive team or (5) infection control.
7. Frontcourt/backcourt status is not attained until a player with the ball has established a positive position in either half during (1) a jump ball, (2) a steal by a defensive player, or (3) a throw-in in the last two minutes of the fourth period and/or any overtime period.

I know they are well trained, but no wonder the referee did not catch it. I am totally confused. ;-)
 
Jafus (Thinker) said:
bluedog,

Interesting!! Good Point!!

They will surely call Cuban out on it if his comment is incorrect.

Section I-Player
The player is out-of-bounds when he touches the floor or any object on or outside a boundary. For location of a player in the air, his position is that from which he last touched the floor.

I believe the question at hand is. Can the player in the frontcourt catch ball in the air and land in the backcourt with out ever first have established original position in the backcourt? I believe Cuban is suggesting that the player must be established in either the frontcourt or backcourt and then precede to catch the ball.


Jafus, He jumped in the air from the frontcourt, caught the ball in the air, and landed in the backcourt. Backcourt Violation!!!
 
Mike,

I agree. I thought it was pretty basic and that's what I wanted to explain by using the rules. But, I got confused in the process. (Smile!!) Thanks!!
 
As Bluedog alluded too

Cuban airs grievances over Game 5 officiating

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2006/news/story?id=2491783

... An assistant coach later showed Cuban that Wade appeared to commit a backcourt violation before the contact with Terry. It's hard to tell on replays because of the giant championship trophy logo at midcourt.

"My understanding from the rule book is, if you are going to catch the ball in the backcourt, you have to be in the backcourt to catch it," Cuban said.

But the NBA pointed out Monday that there was no violation on the play, citing a rule that allows a player to go into the backcourt to receive an inbound pass during the last two minutes of the fourth quarter or any overtime period. ...

????
 
Jafus (Thinker) said:
Section F - Frontcourt/Backcourt
1. A team's frontcourt consists of that part of the court between its endline and the nearer edge of the midcourt line, including the basket and inbounds part of the backboard.
2. A team's backcourt consists of the entire midcourt line and the rest of the court to include the opponent's basket and inbounds part of the backboard.
3. A ball being held by a player: (1) is in the frontcourt if neither the ball nor the player is touching the backcourt, (2) is in the backcourt if either the ball or player is touching the backcourt.
4. A ball being dribbled is (1) in the frontcourt when the ball and both feet of the player are in the frontcourt, (2) in the backcourt if the ball or either foot of the player is in the backcourt.
5. The ball is considered in the frontcourt once it has broken the plane of the midcourt line and is not in player control.
6. The team on offense must bring the ball across the midcourt line within 8 seconds. No additional 10-second count is permitted in the backcourt.
EXCEPTION: (1) kicked ball, (2) punched ball, (3) technical foul on the defensive team, (4) delay-of-game warning on the defensive team or (5) infection control.
7. Frontcourt/backcourt status is not attained until a player with the ball has established a positive position in either half during (1) a jump ball, (2) a steal by a defensive player, or (3) a throw-in in the last two minutes of the fourth period and/or any overtime period.

I know they are well trained, but no wonder the referee did not catch it. I am totally confused. ;-)
Damn, it's right there in point number 7. You can't say that a player is either in the frontcourt or the backcourt until he establishes position WITH THE BALL on either side.
 
The question here is when frontcourt is established on a pass. In this case the ball was already inbounds, so anything having to do with out of bounds doesn't matter. Since this is a pass, everything that has to do with dribbling goes out the window. So, we are down to the ball and the players.

The passing player is clearly in the backcourt. Next is the ball...Did it ever cross midcourt while in the possession of an offensive player? No. So, it there cannot be a backcourt violation on this play.

The officials got it right and Mr. Cuban needs to go to officials school.
 
man all that crap is over with now, if the Mavs go into the game tonight thinking about how they were wronged and this and that, then they can go on and pull up a chair to watch the victory interviews tonight.






P.S. I do kinda want to see Avery go off on another reporter again though! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
 
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