University Leveled Music.


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well maybe in houston we just were a little late... but I didn't think the VCR was invented until the 80's. Now if some of yall have reel to reel projectors or beta units.... I'll be happy to come over and check out your fotage.

anyway... i think you have misunderstood my argument. i love funk... i can send you tapes of PV jammn' the hell out of "Fantsy", "Boogie Wonderland", "Running Away" (props to s phi s), "After the Love was Gone" and other ol' school greats... but I bet you everyone in the SWAC who sees us now will walk away talking about "Big Ball'n". You may call that WRONG... but who are you to judge what is or isn't music. Niether you or i have any Grammy's on the shelf or Bently's in the lot.
 
Exactly. We have one of the more musical pedigrees in the SWAC (per most people's opinion). We can play Giant Steps at tempo without a flaw, then turn right around and play Aww Naww....Which one do you think will be remembered?? Not saying that that is GOOD, but it is TRUTH. Which one do you think will bring students into the university and band program?

Case in point. My senior year in high school (96), I went to the SU-PV game. I was impressed on the field with SU's System of Survival. But when they got back to the stands and played Twisted, I had forgotten all about halftime. Why? Because that sound, that live sound, it did something to me. Was it the most musical arrangement? Not even close. But it moved me.

As I said in an earlier post, I think the band tape era hurts young musicians as well as helps them. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, will recreate the live sound of an HBCU band at a football game. Not a studio recording, not a video tape, not an audio tape, NOTHING!!!! Most problems you really don't begin to hear until you watch tapes, unless they are just blatant. It's good to identify your mistakes and correct them, but youngsters are studying more tapes than ever and are just trying to achieve the sound that they hear on tape without any training. Basically they are teaching themselves, and are fundamentally flawed when they reach the college level.
 

Originally posted by solophone96
well maybe in houston we just were a little late... but I didn't think the VCR was invented until the 80's. Now if some of yall have reel to reel projectors.... I'll be happy to come over and check out your fotage.

anyway... i think you have misunderstood my argument. i love funk... i can send you tapes of PV jammn' the hell out of "Fantsy", "Boogie Wonderland", "Running Away" (props to s phi s), "After the Love was Gone" and other ol' school greats... but I bet you everyone in the SWAC who sees us now will walk away talking about "Big Ball'n". You may call that WRONG... but who are you to judge what is or isn't music. Niether you or i have any Grammy's on the shelf or Bently's in the lot.
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There are many ways to get footage onto VHS and disk. It's called 'technology!!' :swink: My footage is from 77-79.

What in the world are you ranting about? Who said anything about judging music and not loving funk? You have given this thread a serious U-turn. At one time you gave some excellent points, but not with these previous statements! The topic is 'University Leveled Music". And what does having a Grammy and a Bentley have to do with musicianship? :confused:

Sorry, can't respond to these arguments. ;)

Hey Legend35
:wavey:
 
Originally posted by s phi s

As I said in an earlier post, I think the band tape era hurts young musicians as well as helps them. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, will recreate the live sound of an HBCU band at a football game. Not a studio recording, not a video tape, not an audio tape, NOTHING!!!! Most problems you really don't begin to hear until you watch tapes, unless they are just blatant. It's good to identify your mistakes and correct them, but youngsters are studying more tapes than ever and are just trying to achieve the sound that they hear on tape without any training. Basically they are teaching themselves, and are fundamentally flawed when they reach the college level.
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s phi s,

This is exactly what we are concerned with here. There are those who are really concerned about the band programs of today and how they should be teaching their students the fundamentals of music and not just being able to 'blow' on someone. If middle school band directors don't teach musciality early, then the students are lost on what they hear live. This type of mentality is then brought to high school level and eventually to the college level. If it is not caught early, then the musicianship is lost. If they are not musically inclined to listen to chords and other aspects of music, the only thing they can critique is how loud the band was.

And just a personal note. tapes at one time were only for that particular band to critique their previous performance.
 
I guess I'm just a hybrid bandsman....I was trained in the new school by an old-school band director.

Most people think it's all about the music, when in reality it's all about the concepts employed while playing the music that makes a band stand out from others, whether it be good or bad.
 
excuse me... i love the band and all but the only fotage i have from the seventies is porn (lol)

anyway

maybe my argument went over your head... but in a nut shell my piont is this: university level music is whatever a university decieds to play. who cares, beside some music major with nothing else to do, about how complex the arangment was. we have a song in our book called " Out on a Limb" by Tina Marie. Probably one of the simplest peices i've ever played, but anyone who hears it can't help but love it.

Now, i'll agree the are some bands who don't know dynamics from Dy- No- Mite!!! but even if they did they would probably still suck.
 
Originally posted by solophone96
excuse me... i love the band and all but the only fotage i have from the seventies is porn (lol)

anyway

maybe my argument went over your head... but in a nut shell my piont is this: university level music is whatever a university decieds to play. who cares, beside some music major with nothing else to do, about how complex the arangment was. we have a song in our book called " Out on a Limb" by Tina Marie. Probably one of the simplest peices i've ever played, but anyone who hears it can't help but love it.

Now, i'll agree the are some bands who don't know dynamics from Dy- No- Mite!!! but even if they did they would probably still suck.
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Understand your point Solo....now let's put this topic back on the track of University Leveled Music that it originated on in relation to sound. What is your view on some bands being so gung-ho on volume instead of quality?
 
Originally posted by dacontinent


Sorry. Simply not true. There have been bands in the SWAC that have the kind of musicality of which we speak. I have heard it from JSU, SU, and GSU years ago. You are correct in that the general public probably could not care less about refining the musicality...but musicians MUST. Otherwise, there is not much to separate us from the general public. When that happens, the artistry is lost and so is our value.




Unfortunately, the SWAC does have a different approach, and it is the WRONG approach for our students. Certainly you don't support perpetuating the "warping" of minds in the way that you describe. Someone has to be willing to stand up and make a difference.

Dance...but be musical. Play loudly...but me musical. Play the latest tunes...but be musical. Play soft (do I really mean that? YES!!!)...but be musical. DO ALL OF THE THINGS THAT THE PUBLIC LOVES AND PUTS THEIR BUTTS IN THE SEATS FOR...BUT BE MUSICAL!!!!

Are we clear?
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Yes , that's what I'm talking about. Anything you do , be musical. One thing though, they're are some of you swac bands that are musical, JSU is one of them.
 
Originally posted by ShyLadyTiger


Understand your point Solo....now let's put this topic back on the track of University Leveled Music that it originated on in relation to sound. What is your view on some bands being so gung-ho on volume instead of quality?
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I love loud , but loud and balanced , loud and sounding good.
Some people tend to think that playing loud is not good and doesn't keep a good tone, and in some cases , it's agreed, but it depends on the approach and emphasis on the music.
 
a GOOD band knows how to produce volume while maintaining quality. i don't think your heavy hitters in the SWAC have lost that focus. i think the major difference between our programs and those in the MEAC( where dynamics and complexity of music is highly stress) is that here we are taught at a young age how to project our sound. Its the difference between the mariachi and classical musician. Sound is our trademark. Those bands that don't know how to maintain balance would still be sorry even if they did.
 
There actually are cases, believe it or not, where louder is better. It all depends on what you are playing and the capablilty of the players in your ensemble.

Speaking from a personal standpoint, I was trained to play with power, and therefore I am usually naturally more powerful than most people I play around. But it IS possible to play with a loud volume and maintain the musical characteristics of your instrument.

As an example (kind of far fetched, but the point remains)....For you trumpet players out there....Who would you say is a better trumpet player, Herbert Clarke or Arturo Sandoval???
 
LOL SOLO....we must have been thinking the same thing at the same time.....

Mr. Woodson and Mr. Portis, send help!!!!
 
speak on it bruh..... they don't fell me!

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Magnificent Mello!!!!!! Phone!!!
 
Originally posted by solophone96
speak on it bruh..... they don't fell me!

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Magnificent Mello!!!!!! Phone!!!
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I guess we don't. :smh:
Be back when the topic comes back.
Until then, I'll be over here---------------------------->

Legend35,

Don't give up your quest on bringing the music programs to a higher level......both in quality, discipline and respect for the betterment of all bands....:swink:


:wavey:
 
Originally posted by s phi s
There actually are cases, believe it or not, where louder is better. It all depends on what you are playing and the capablilty of the players in your ensemble.

Speaking from a personal standpoint, I was trained to play with power, and therefore I am usually naturally more powerful than most people I play around. But it IS possible to play with a loud volume and maintain the musical characteristics of your instrument.

As an example (kind of far fetched, but the point remains)....For you trumpet players out there....Who would you say is a better trumpet player, Herbert Clarke or Arturo Sandoval???
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I don't have a problem with this statement . There are bands out there that have blown this loudness out of character and it absolutely breaks my heart. Volume is just one variable of musicianship. Case and point: I don't know Herbert Clark or Sandova but I do know Chic Webb and Count Basie. One year at the Savoy they had a battle and Chic was throwing everything he had at Count with heavy accents and tempos. Count Basie beat him with FINESSE. There is a time for loudness and a time to play low but some of the slow songs I hear being played sounds like Ike and Tina Turner (hard and Rough) In my personal view I feel writers arrange music for the sake of over emphasized projection and sometimes compromise the seasonings of the piece to project that sound. The seasoning of the music is what give the music life. What I hear now sounds like meat and bread only . I miss the trimmings. I know for a fact that there is still good music being played on the radio today but it's being watered down for a number of reason and that's my major beef.

Hello ShyLadyTiger :wavey:
 

Originally posted by Legend35
I don't have a problem with this statement . There are bands out there that have blown this loudness out of character and it absolutely breaks my heart. Volume is just one variable of musicianship. Case and point: I don't know Herbert Clark or Sandova but I do know Chic Webb and Count Basie. One year at the Savoy they had a battle and Chic was throwing everything he had at Count with heavy accents and tempos. Count Basie beat him with FINESSE. There is a time for loudness and a time to play low but some of the slow songs I hear being played sounds like Ike and Tina Turner (hard and Rough) In my personal view I feel writers arrange music for the sake of over emphasized projection and sometimes compromise the seasonings of the piece to project that sound. The seasoning of the music is what give the music life. What I hear now sounds like meat and bread only . I miss the trimmings. I know for a fact that there is still good music being played on the radio today but it's being watered down for a number of reason and that's my major beef.

Hello ShyLadyTiger :wavey:
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This topic has be resurrected!! Thank you GOD!!

Sniff, sniff...Legend35, you make me so proud I could cry! :bawling:

A happy cry that is....:wavey:

s phi s,

There is nothing wrong with power as opposed to loudness. There has to be some crescendos and decresandos in music to get the full effect. If this difference is not incorporated in a musical selection, then all you have is a loud sound.
 
Originally posted by s phi s
Exactly. We have one of the more musical pedigrees in the SWAC (per most people's opinion). We can play Giant Steps at tempo without a flaw, then turn right around and play Aww Naww....Which one do you think will be remembered?? Not saying that that is GOOD, but it is TRUTH. Which one do you think will bring students into the university and band program?

Case in point. My senior year in high school (96), I went to the SU-PV game. I was impressed on the field with SU's System of Survival. But when they got back to the stands and played Twisted, I had forgotten all about halftime. Why? Because that sound, that live sound, it did something to me. Was it the most musical arrangement? Not even close. But it moved me.

.
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When the alumni come to a game, I know for a fact that there are some who hate rap. Rap is the music for today and it is good for recruiting the young kids. I stress balance. Something for the old and young. Something musically challenging to demonstrate you can perform at that level and not so challenging. Not only are you playing to recruit them kids but, you are playing for old heads who control the dollars and want to hear good music other than Rap. I stress balance. I have a concern now,....When we say we are the best bands in the land, are we limiting ourselves to a conference standpoint or is this national. In the national arena you got to come with some music.
Dacontinent said it best: Do what we do the best and do what they (Division I schools) do better than them.
 
Originally posted by Legend35
When the alumni come to a game, I know for a fact that there are some who hate rap. Rap is the music for today and it is good for recruiting the young kids. I stress balance. Something for the old and young. Something musically challenging to demonstrate you can perform at that level and not so challenging. Not only are you playing to recruit them kids but, you are playing for old heads who control the dollars and want to hear good music other than Rap. I stress balance. I have a concern now,....When we say we are the best bands in the land, are we limiting ourselves to a conference standpoint or is this national. In the national arena you got to come with some music.
Dacontinent said it best: Do what we do the best and do what they (Division I schools) do better than them.
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On point! :tup:
If there is no money, you get the remnants of musicians that are left over after the big schools recruit the most versatile players. It's all about diversity. There are more than rap aficionados at these football games. The money comes from the alumni and you HAVE to incorporate a broad spectrum of music in your program. We played jazz, gospel, rap, marches and r&b while I was at JSU. There are only a few songs that get the crowd going at every game and those are the tunes that are played religiously. There is nothing wrong with that to get the crowd pumped up. But there does come a time when your musicality is put on the line. What do you think the crowd will remember the most? That 'krunk' tune that was played or the fact that a selection was destroyed because some members can't perform simple runs and changes in a selection?

Sorry Legend35, but dacontinent and yourself make so many valid points when you post, that I can't help but agree....:swink:
 
Here's my take:

There is power in Harmony......IMO if a particular section overblows and drowns out the other sections in the band, then the "Thunder" of the piece performed will be destroyed.

There is more to music than just dynamics and runs. I believe in musical life and bringing music to life or bringing life to music......especially in my personal band and sectional arrangements......If I can't feel the life in my music, then it simply won't be played (That's why I have yet to let prof see any of my arrangements).

I'm not a music major. As a matter of fact, I JUST got a Minor in music......but I am a TOUGH critic when it comes to music arrangements. If your music does not come to life and grab me, then your piece, In my HONEST opinion, is not effective.

A piece can be loud, it can have runs and all that nice stuff......but the main ingredient that seperates a piece that was performed well and a piece that was performed exceptionally is expression.

After all that's what music is.......expressions......
 
Originally posted by PVSAX99
Here's my take:

There is power in Harmony......IMO if a particular section overblows and drowns out the other sections in the band, then the "Thunder" of the piece performed will be destroyed.

There is more to music than just dynamics and runs. I believe in musical life and bringing music to life or bringing life to music......especially in my personal band and sectional arrangements......If I can't feel the life in my music, then it simply won't be played (That's why I have yet to let prof see any of my arrangements).

I'm not a music major. As a matter of fact, I JUST got a Minor in music......but I am a TOUGH critic when it comes to music arrangements. If your music does not come to life and grab me, then your piece, In my HONEST opinion, is not effective.

A piece can be loud, it can have runs and all that nice stuff......but the main ingredient that seperates a piece that was performed well and a piece that was performed exceptionally is expression.

After all that's what music is.......expressions......
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Good point PVSAX! I just used 'runs' as an example of musicality. There are many aspects in performing a piece whether it be classical, jazz and etc. Music is definitely an expression and should be performed at it's finest. Splattering notes to increase your power is a weak interpretation of music. :)
 
I believe that every piece......regardless of its simplicity or complexity......has a purpose and should evoke some emotion when being played. Every song should make people think of a particular setting or event taking place.

For example:

PV's GENESIS......

When the woodwinds trill at the beginning, I think that something is approaching......like a tidal wave or something building on a once calm ocean.

Picture it.....flutes and clarinets trilling from a concert F to an F#.......you can almost hear the wind and water......lol.

Something spectacular is about to happen.....that builds anticipation.

When the brass comes in......I think of the Heavens opening and GOD himself approaching the ocean with the approaching tidal wave.

Then the Tubas and the Box come in along with the rest of the band.....
I picture GOD saying,

"I am here. Everything is gonna be okay......This IS a new beginning......"

Then the tidal wave crashes on the rocks by the shore, and you can see a beautiful spectrum behind the falling water and the powerful voice that spoke. This is what I picture when the final chord is played.

GENESIS is a VERY moving piece. I see this vivid picture when we play that song.....and I get goosebumps everytime I hear it.

But the song is really EASY!!!!!!
 
Lord have Mercy!!!

This is what I'm talking about. This is what I miss. I find it hard to play expressively if I can't feel what I'm playing. Your interpretion alone is moving me and I only heard it one time. I have a great deal of respect for PV. I remember the first time I saw yall, real small band and you all play "If This World Was Mine". You had a male and female singer and I could hear every instrumental part. I said that day that you all was going to be a problem. And you are but, that's a good thing because competition is healthy. Just today, I was looking at last year's tape of PV when we played yall. I like that Stevie Wonder's "Superstition" in d minor. That is what I would catagorize as University Leveled Music. Counter melody with chromatic chord changes on the bridge. I couldn't make it out but, I think you got off the bridge on a V7 of i to get back to the I but, I liked it. A nice tempo that doesn't rob the music of it's groove. These are some of the concepts they are teaching me here and that's what I like to hear. That's what I miss in band arrangements in general.
 
Legend35, that is my arrangement of Superstition. *wink*

We are on the same page. Thanks a bunch...
 
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