To the Catholics...


BluBlood

"Mississippi Woman"
...please understand that this thread is not to criticize, make fun, or start a fight. My mother always said if you don't know something...ask. I'm not actually clear on that religion. Can you explain to me who or what is worshipped in that religion? I've always heard that you all pray to the Mother of Jesus? Again, I'm not trying to start anything negative, just want someone to spread the knowledge. Thanks!
 
Well let me grab my collar.Yes we pray to Mary the mother of Jesus we also pray to all saints. Not to say that we make the saints to be God or anything like that.We pray to them for them to intercede for us.I hope this clears it up some.Hassan help me out some
 
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remember that before Martin Luther nailed the 95 theses on the door of the cathedral of Wittenburg during the 16th century, there were basically two Christians: Eastern Orthodox (Greece, the Balkans, Russia, Turkey, et cetera) and Roman Catholics (everyone else).

Most folks that are now Baptists, Methodists, et al would've been Catholic had it not been for Luther's Reformation.

*That makes is REAL simple but this is not a theology course.

Thus, the Catholic denomination is the one that from which many Christian denominations were born.

The Bible is not new. Thus, the Bible was being used by Catholics when no one knew what a Baptist, Pentacostal, Mormon, etc was (cause they didnt exist).

We dont so much pray to Mary or the saints as much as we ask them to intercede on our behalf. Doing this is no different than a woman getting up at Allen AME and asking the pastor and the congregation to pray for her.

If one looks at the Hail Mary, you'll see this:

Hail Mary,
Full of Grace
The Lord is with thee
Blessed art thou among women
Blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus.

Holy Mary,
Mother of God
Please pray for us sinners
Both now and at the hour of our death.


The saints are humans just like all of us who overcame the FLESH of their bodies to do wonderful works as servants to God via the SPIRIT.

Most Catholic pastors are more than happy to let non-Catholics join our cathecism classes so that others may learn "the mysteries of the faith".

Good question.
 
Questions for the Catholics-Help Me Understand

I have a few questions. I am trying toget an understanding because - I have friends that are Catholic, and a number of things they practice and believe in contradict bible teaching.


I thought Jesus / The Holy Spirit, that interceeds for the Saint's, thats according to Romans 8:18-39

I thought the Catholic Church, was started in 606 A.D, in Rome, by Boniface III. If this is true, then it is contradictry to Bible teaching.

If most religious bodies is an extension, of the Catholic Church. Why, isn't the Catholic Church mentioned in the Bible. According, to my studies of the bible - the first converts of the bible were called Christians not Catholics {Acts:26:26, 1 Peter 4:16, Acts 11:26}

According to the bible, the church started in Jerusalem, not Rome.

Why do the Catholics, ask people in the Catholic Church, as "Father" to forgive thei for their sins. When the bible says only God can forgive sins. I was told, because he is a spiritual father. If that's true that contradicts the {MT. 23:9) Some people, call a man Reverend, which also goes against bible teaching {Psalms 111:9)



Most of the Churchies I have read about in the bible, points back toward Christ, not the Pope of the Catholic Church. {Eomans 8:29, Col. 1:15,16 ; Rev. 1:5; Hebrews 12:23,24}

I thought when we pray, we are to pray to God.

Why pray to the dead, they can not help or communicate with the living. Thats acording to the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man.
 
Re: Questions for the Catholics-Help Me Understand

I thought Jesus / The Holy Spirit, that interceeds for the Saint's, thats according to Romans 8:18-39
ok, but the Saints can (but dont HAVE to) intercede for us - like I said earlier, asking the saints to pray for us is no different than asking our mama's or our pastors to pray for us

I thought the Catholic Church, was started in 606 A.D, in Rome, by Boniface III. If this is true, then it is contradictry to Bible teaching.
the Church was founded when Jesus "renamed" his top disciple CEPHAS, Greek for rock...in Italian, rock is Petras...PETER. "Upon this Rock, I shall build my church". Peter was the first Pope

If most religious bodies is an extension, of the Catholic Church. Why, isn't the Catholic Church mentioned in the Bible. According, to my studies of the bible - the first converts of the bible were called Christians not Catholics {Acts:26:26, 1 Peter 4:16, Acts 11:26}
Since the first Church was the Catholic church, there was no need to call it anything BUT the Christian Church. The Catholic "distinction" didnt arise until after the last book of the Bible was written and that was to distinguish it from the growing Eastern church (the Eastern church's growth came as a result of the demise of the Western Roman empire and the rise of the Bysantine Empire in Constantinople. There was no need to mention "Catholic" in the Bible because the first and - for many years - the only Christian Church was what is now called the Catholic Church

According to the bible, the church started in Jerusalem, not Rome.
Yes, but when Jesus made Peter "the Rock" upon which he would build His church, it was in the Holy Land. But Peter's ministry took him to the most important city in the world at the time: Rome. Peter did the work of Jesus among the Romans of the days and was martyered for this. He was crucified on a place called Vatican Hill and was buried nearby. *The place of Peter's burial now sits under what is now Saint Peter's Basilica...in Rome

Why do the Catholics, ask people in the Catholic Church, as "Father" to forgive thei for their sins. When the bible says only God can forgive sins. I was told, because he is a spiritual father. If that's true that contradicts the {MT. 23:9) Some people, call a man Reverend, which also goes against bible teaching {Psalms 111:9)
Jesus wants us to forgive each other so that we, too, maybe forgiven. By confessing our sins to, what appears to earthly eyes, merely a priest, we are actually helping to put in a human context an act of contrition that is intended solely for God (the priest is merely an INSTRUMENT that God is working through).

Most of the Churchies I have read about in the bible, points back toward Christ, not the Pope of the Catholic Church. {Eomans 8:29, Col. 1:15,16 ; Rev. 1:5; Hebrews 12:23,24}
The Pope points us to Christ. He is our spiritual leader. He sets the standard. He is our role model for how we as humans should be servants of God's. The Office of the Pope is the continuation of how Jesus himself made Peter, the first Pope, the first Vicar of Christ, the Rock upon which He built His church.

I thought when we pray, we are to pray to God.
I dont think that - I KNOW that

Why pray to the dead, they can not help or communicate with the living. Thats acording to the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man.
We dont pray to the dead - we pray to the one true living God
 
Hassan

Thank you for the information. The reason I am asking questions and may disagree with you and others, because I had many friends that were Catholic and Protestant. We have discussed religion, the church on many occasions. As a person of Greek heritage. I have told them on several occasions their understanding "if any" of the language is incorrect. I understand that most people, has read classical Greek, which is totally different that the Greek Language in the Bible. The Greek Language of the Bible, is Koinec Greek, which means it's the language of the street, market places, fishing villages etc. The Greek Language, is based upon grammatical rendering, prepositions, Moods "indicative, imperative operative or subjective" Tense "present, aorist, perfect, imperfect and future" , Conditions " first, second, third and fourth.

Based on the Koinec Language, I disagree with you understanding of Mt. 16:18. I think, this is the scripture you are referring to, concerning your answers about the "rock" this is what this particular scripture teaches:

1. This was Peter's confession of faith.

2. Jesus, resposne to Peter "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. etc. ........ bsed on his answer.

My understanding is the Catholic Church teaches from that particular scripture the Lord made Peter alone the Rock and key bearer of the church. But, that's not what that scripture is teaching.

When one continue to autopsy the scriptures, concerning the NT Church.

1. Peter, is never given a place of special authority in the NT. Jesus, always treats the apostles as equal in authority and responsibility [Mt. 28:16-20]

2. At the only church council mentioned in the NT, James-not Peter-preside over the meeting [Acts 15]. Now, one would come to the conclusion, if Jesus, had appointed Peter, he would reside over the meeting not James.

3. Refering back to Mt. 28:16-20 and other scriptures. When the foundation of the church is mentioned, Christ-not-Peter-is called the rock on which it is built. Peter, himself explains in 1 Petr 2:4-8 that Christ, is the cornerstone of the church. Paul, also refers to "Christ, being the chief cornerstone - [Eph. 2:20] "For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ" {1 Cor. 3:11]

4. Therefore, Peter, being the rock is not true. Mt. 28:16-20, is a confession of faith.

Let's look at this argument. If the Catholic Church is correct. Suppose Jesus, did refer to Peter as "the rock". The bible, does not teach apostolic succession. It does not teach that those who followed Petr were also to be the rock on which the church is built. Neither, does the Scriptures say anything about the authority of Rome of the popes. Truely, the word "pope" is not even used in the NT.

In fact, he only positions for the NT church are those pointed out in Ephesians 4:11, with the exception of Apostles and Prophets.

I can not find anywhere in the bible, where anyone uses the title of "Pope"

While to some I may seem augumentative, I am just attempting to obtain a more indept understanding of different religious beliefs.
_______________________________________________________

I understand the division of the "Catholic Church" during the early church history. It was divided due to the diference of opinion between; Leo, of Rome - who said everyone should obey the bishop of Rome "himself" because he held the "Primacy of St. Peter." Through the Pose, as Peter's successor. Leo's, claim was disputed by the eastern "sect" of the church, which was centered around Constantinople. In 1504, when the Eastern & Western "Sects" broke up because the Eastern church refuse to accept the authority of Pope Leo IX. As a result of this, the Western Church grew and added certain doctrines theat were not in the Bible. Within the Western Church, there was disagreement, primarily because the new teaching was not supported by Scriptures. At this point Martin Luther, enter the picture.

Again thanks for the information.
 
interesting and very thought-provoking points...

I'll have to look into some more

I look forward to continuing this dialogue

*this should be fun and very enlightening

:D
 
This is good discussion's y'all. I appreciate it.

While I am learning from both of you, I want to insert a few comments.

I've been a part of different religions partly because my mother changed our original upbrining (Baptist) to a non-denominational (World Wide Church of God which is another discussion in and of itself) ...

Now I have found a church in the last 4 years which happens to be UMC (united methodist church) ...

Also having relatives who are Jehovah's Witness etc.... I get an earful on which church was the first church.

Why is it that MANY denominations CLAIM the first church as their church? Am I misunderstanding their interpretations?

I will wait for your responses. Thanks.
 
Ms. J4J, I can't give you an exact philosophic answer; but I believe when it comes down to the different denominations claiming which church is first; it's simply a divide conquer strategy used by the devil himself. When you really think about it, what is the significance of claiming which church is first??? God has us here to 1. Glorify Him and 2. Proclaim His name to others. When judgement day arrives, I am pretty sure that He will not be concern with denominations and church names. I usuall try to avoid unnecessary discussions such as that because I find it useless. What will it accomplish? (I know someone will probably say, know your history, but my eternal future is more important.) The devil wants to divert the attention away from God to something that will only lead to the destruction of our souls.

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.


2 Timothy 2:15 -16 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
 
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Thanks Blu. Your point is well taken, but I still don't have an answer to my original question ... or maybe I do.

Thanks!
 
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