SWAC as FBS



JAG89

THE NEW AMERICA'S TEAM
I agree. This was a great assessment. I'm sure the SWAC office could use this as a base assessment. In-house resources at their finest.
 

bjnt922

Well-Known Member
If anyone has the ear of Dr. McClelland, have him contact @tierre so this research can be presented to him so we can get the ball rolling on this FCS to FBS transition sooner. That way the schools that have things to fix so they can better prepare for the transition.
 
#3 FAMU
Looking at Bragg Stadium it needs to be updated. FAMU has the national brand that is better than alot of schools in G5. FAMU has an athletic budget of $11.2 Million. The budget needs to increase by $5 million. That budget would also increase by $2 million just by them joining the SWAC. With an average attendance of 16,537, FAMU beats what is needed as far as attendance for being in FBS and would increase even more with playing teams in the SWAC verses the MEAC. With an enrollment 9,912 FAMU beats the number needed to be in FBS and would be the 2nd largest school in the SWAC.
FAMU Grade A-
FAMU has plans to build a new stadium and the timeline actually fits the proposed timeline for the SWAC to make the jump to FBS. Right now we are doing a 1 million dollar upgrade to our field house and another 10 million dollars worth of upgrades to our current stadium. We are positioning ourselves to bump up our enrollment to at least 12,000 by 2025 and possible 15,000 by by tearing down our old updated dorms and building more state of the art facilities. We are changing our profile of students in order to increase our funding from the state of Florida.
 

JROCK

Preeminent
I also did the attendance of all G5 schools and included the SWAC, Bethune-Cookman, and FAMU in it.
There are 73 total teams

(5) Jackson St. 33,762
Highest rated game vs. Southern 40,085

40. Alabama St. 17,899
Highest rated game vs. Tuskegee 27,828

47. Southern 16,957
Highest rated game vs. AAMU 20,344

49. FAMU 16,537
Highest rated game vs. Southern 27,191

61. Alcorn 13,196
Highest rated game vs. Southern 22,465

64. Grambling 10,396
Highest rated game vs. Texas Southern 14,562

67. Texas Southern 9,204
Highest rated game vs. Prairie View 16,407

69. AAMU 8,952
Highest rated game vs. Texas Southern 14,626

70. UAPB 7,191
Highest rated game vs. Langston 9,613

71. Bethune-Cookman 6,660
Highest rated game vs. South Carolina St. 12,204

72. Prairie View 6,364
Highest rated game vs. Virginia-Lynchburg 13,626

73. MVSU 4,416
Highest rated game vs. Jackson St. 9,093

Also ULM had its highest attendance vs. Grambling
USM had its highest attendance vs. Alcorn
UAB had its highest attendance vs. Alabama St.
There are several feathers in the SWAC hat that those G-5 schools can't count on that attendance numbers in most instances won't reflect:
1) Bayou Classic (would become not only the "Crown Jewel" of BCF but G-5 football as well)....LOL
2) Magic City Classic
3) Florida Classic (beginning 2021)
4) State Fair Classic
5) Southern Heritage Classic
 
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tierre

Well-Known Member
I believe you should have included ticket revenue per game in your assessment. Large crowds are fine, but what counts the most is the revenue generated from attendance. It's like comparing quantity versus quality.
I think JROCK had presented that information. He is a very good source of information.
 

JAG89

THE NEW AMERICA'S TEAM
I think JROCK had presented that information. He is a very good source of information.

I believe ticket prices have been discussed on here several times. It has been stated more than once that eventhough SU's attendance numbers have dropped over the years, our ticket revenue has increased, which says the two are basically correlated. I first realized this back in 2004 when USAToday started publishing NCAA DI Revenues and Expenses data.

See post #188 in the link below:
 
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Earle

Well-Known Member

I want to echo what JRock has said on a well done job! I also have an observation I would like to point out. Some institutions show higher average attendance when certain schools visit their campus. Then in years when those schools are not the visiting team, attendance numbers usually go down. Consequently, the numbers being reported could end up looking superficial. For example, during years when SU is the visiting team, the home team usually has a good attendance night. But most teams do not return the favor to SU in equal proportions. I think a better indication of average home attendance would have been an average based a two-year computation. Additionally, some SWAC rivalry games count for some schools, but don't count for others. JSU/Alcorn and PV/sTu count in those institutions' attendance numbers, but don't count when it comes to SU/GSU or AAMU/ASU. All things being fair, the average attendance for SU/GSU and AAMU/ASU are actually much higher than what is reported by entities that do not take the same into consideration.
 
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Fiyah

Administrator
Staff member
The field was fine until the end of last year. Actually for the past couple years it's like that. They need to maintain it throughout the season. The images below show the difference 2 weeks made from the pine bluff game to the su game.

You're showing pictures from a distance and you can't really see how it really is. I'm talking from field level and have been down on it.

Here's a few shots from 2018, look at the turf and how bad it is.




 

tierre

Well-Known Member
I want to echo what JRock has said on a well done job! I also have an observation I would like to point out. Some institutions show higher average attendance when certain schools visit their campus. Then in years when those schools are not the visiting team, attendance numbers usually go down. Consequently, the numbers being reported could end up looking superficial. For example, during years when SU is the visiting team, the home team usually has a good attendance night. But most teams do not return the favor to SU in equal proportions. I think a better indication of average home attendance would have been an average based a two-year computation. Additionally, some SWAC rivalry games count for some schools, but don't count for others. JSU/Alcorn and PV/sTu count in those institutions' attendance numbers, but don't count when it comes to SU/GSU or AAMU/ASU. All things being fair, the average attendance for SU/GSU and AAMU/ASU are actually much higher than what is reported by entities that do not take the same into consideration.
Southern always traveled. The first time I ever saw Southern was in the mid 90s when they came to Alcorn and Jackson st in the same year. Southern came to Alcorn filled the visitor side the hills and came on the home side talking mad trash. Played Jackson st the next week and took over veterans memorial. Not only that it seemed like they must have half off sales on RVs down there in Baton Rouge because everybody and they mama had one. Southern fan base is not as strong as they were in the late 90s and early 2000s but they will get back to there. A lot of people don’t like going to Southern because of high ticket prices and to be honest scared to go to Baton Rouge. I have no problem long as y’all stop playing us for homecoming. Homecoming should never be your rival. Plus taking 2 hours to park from the time you make to southern is a turn off
 

Bewildered

Well-Known Member
I want to echo what JRock has said on a well done job! I also have an observation I would like to point out. Some institutions show higher average attendance when certain schools visit their campus. Then in years when those schools are not the visiting team, attendance numbers usually go down. Consequently, the numbers being reported could end up looking superficial. For example, during years when SU is the visiting team, the home team usually has a good attendance night. But most teams do not return the favor to SU in equal proportions. I think a better indication of average home attendance would have been an average based a two-year computation. Additionally, some SWAC rivalry games count for some schools, but don't count for others. JSU/Alcorn and PV/sTu count in those institutions' attendance numbers, but don't count when it comes to SU/GSU or AAMU/ASU. All things being fair, the average attendance for SU/GSU and AAMU/ASU are actually much higher than what is reported by entities that do not take the same into consideration.

PV/sTu and JSU/Alcorn St are home and home games, not neutral site games.

A few recent years ago, for the first time ever, PV counted its home game @ neutral site dallas vs GSU in its attendance figures. That was an interesting experiment.
 

NastyD

Da 1 & Only
You're showing pictures from a distance and you can't really see how it really is. I'm talking from field level and have been down on it.

Here's a few shots from 2018, look at the turf and how bad it is.





I've been on field level. You are only proving my point. In 2018 PV was the last game of the season. They are not maintaining it properly throughout the season.
 

JROCK

Preeminent
Southern always traveled. The first time I ever saw Southern was in the mid 90s when they came to Alcorn and Jackson st in the same year. Southern came to Alcorn filled the visitor side the hills and came on the home side talking mad trash. Played Jackson st the next week and took over veterans memorial. Not only that it seemed like they must have half off sales on RVs down there in Baton Rouge because everybody and they mama had one. Southern fan base is not as strong as they were in the late 90s and early 2000s but they will get back to there. A lot of people don’t like going to Southern because of high ticket prices and to be honest scared to go to Baton Rouge. I have no problem long as y’all stop playing us for homecoming. Homecoming should never be your rival. Plus taking 2 hours to park from the time you make to southern is a turn off

3 other components exist with S.U.'s fan base that some people are not aware of that impacts attendance. 1) an aging fan base (can't do much about that). 2) a discerning fan base that can smell below par/stagnant football from a mile away (S.U. fans can't stand moral victories or 1/2 of a good game). 3) Quality of home opponents vs monetary investment.
 

tierre

Well-Known Member
I also feel there is no reason for Alcorn and Southern to not travel to each other. They are about a 2 hour drive away. The only school closer is Jackson st and they are 1.5 hours away
 

tierre

Well-Known Member
Thanks everyone for your responses to my thread. There was alot of discussion about bowl games that would involve the SWAC schools. The responses were both positive and negative. I was told that some schools have to eat up alot of tickets that don't sell for those other bowl games that involve P5 schools. I will have that for you tonight.
 

tierre

Well-Known Member
I used this basis off of the Celebration Bowl.

I was shocked being that Celebration Bowl only being 5 years old has a TV rating better than all but 1 bowl game that involves G5 teams and that is the Bacon Raton Bowl game. The Celebration Bowl also outdraws all bowl games involving G5 schools except this year when USM played Tulane in the Armed Forces Bowl in Fort Worth, TX. That showed me that HBCU football is more valuable than most people think.

Celebration Bowl
1.81 average (TV Rating)

There was some people saying that attendance in the driving force in bowl games and some people said that TV ratings. When I researched it the attendance is needed, however TV ratings are more important than the attendance. I am going to compare the bowl games to the Celebration Bowl and ticket prices.
 
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Earle

Well-Known Member
PV/sTu and JSU/Alcorn St are home and home games, not neutral site games.

A few recent years ago, for the first time ever, PV counted its home game @ neutral site dallas vs GSU in its attendance figures. That was an interesting experiment.

Same difference, B! Whether it's a neutral site game or not, one year it is SU's home game and the next year it is GSU's. The only reason it is at a neutral site is that fan interest outweighs home stadium capacities. The game is played every year; it is a conference game. If it is our home game, then it is our home game! Last year the BC was SU's home game. If you count that game in SU's average attendance, the same stands at 27,200. For Tierre's research, why would one not want to count it? Imagine if the attendance at the PV/sTu game, or the JSU/AlSU game, your highest, are not counted, then your average attendance numbers drop drastically. Fairness dictates that all conference matchups be counted.
 

Bewildered

Well-Known Member
Same difference, B! Whether it's a neutral site game or not, one year it is SU's home game and the next year it is GSU's. The only reason it is at a neutral site is that fan interest outweighs home stadium capacities. The game is played every year; it is a conference game. If it is our home game, then it is our home game! Last year the BC was SU's home game. If you count that game in SU's average attendance, the same stands at 27,200. For Tierre's research, why would one not want to count it? Imagine if the attendance at the PV/sTu game, or the JSU/AlSU game, your highest, are not counted, then your average attendance numbers drop drastically. Fairness dictates that all conference matchups be counted.

I'm not disagreeing w/ you Earle. Just presenting the rationale why those 2 games were counted while other IC match-ups weren't. I even alluded to the deal where PV included its SFC "home" count a few years ago and all hell broke a loose. lol That game put us in the top-10 FCS for home games lol. I think that was also the first fall season for the new stadium so it was decently packed out at home that fall season. Check the records but I thnk that was the sequence.
 

tierre

Well-Known Member
Bowl Payouts

1. Las Vegas Bowl
$2.9 Million
Mountain West vs. Pac 12

2. Liberty Bowl
$2.4 Million
AAC vs. Big 12

3. Military Bowl
$2.1 Million
AAC vs. ACC

4. Quick Lane Bowl
$2 Million
MAC vs. ACC

5 Cactus Bowl
$1.6 Million
Mountain West vs. Pac 12

6. Lending Tree Bowl
$1.5 Million
MAC vs. Sunbelt.

7. Birmingham Bowl
$1.4 Million
AAC vs. ACC

8. Armed Forces Bowl
$1.35 Million
CSUA vs. AAC

9 Hawaii Bowl
$1.2 Million
Mountain West vs. opponent

10. Gasparilla Bowl
$1.1 Million
AAC vs. CUSA

11. New Mexico Bowl
$1.05 Million
MAC vs. Mountain West

12. Celebration Bowl
$1 Million
SWAC Champ vs. MEAC Champ

13. Boca Raton Bowl
$900,000
CUSA vs. AAC

14. New Orleans Bowl
$825,000
Sunbelt vs. CUSA

15. First Responder Bowl
$825,000
CUSA vs. MAC

16. Arizona Bowl
$750,000
Mountain West vs. Sunbelt

17. Idaho Potatoes Bowl
$750,000
Mountain West vs. MAC
Schools must have a corporate sponsor, stay in certain hotels and stay there for atleast a certain amount of days. And the school must purchase a certain amount of tickers.

18. Frisco Bowl
$650,000
AAC vs. Opponent

19. Cure Bowl
$573,000
Sunbelt vs. Opponent

20. Camellia Bowl
$300,000
Sunbelt vs. CUSA
I hope that ALL expenses are paid for

21. Bahamas Bowl
$250,000
CUSA vs. MAC
I hope that ALL expenses are paid for.
 

tierre

Well-Known Member
The attendance is important for bowl games because it helps cover those expenses. Alot of bowls have you sell a certain amount of tickets. You don't sell that ticket allotment and your school has to eat those cost. I think that Alcorn had to sell 5,000 tickets for the Celebration Bowl. Those tickets were not cheap. We were on the 40 yard line and they were $85 apiece. I must say that ratings are more important because if you can get eyeballs to look at your product, then you will win in the end. It is one of the reasons why those off brand G5 schools have a leg up on the SWAC.
 

Tigerpride

THE Logical ONE
Well yall had your little thread, now lets be real. 80% of these schools need to sit down. Pay MEAC schools to come? (Kenn, when you gonna get gifs mane....lol)

Southern's stadium is ugly and PV will never have a reason to expand.

Since when does AAMU supporters attend homecoming? I thought they only went to TNState's homecoming.

The Vet is the best stadium in FCS. Some people want an on-campus stadium. To me, its a mistake but Im just one person. Some turf (or a well cared for field) and a NEW press box is all we need. Why spend MILLIONS and MILLIONS to build something we will use 5-6 times per year. But oh well...
 
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