So JayRob...


Apaquelypse

Delta Tau 04
Where does it say that in the bible because the very word Christian means Christ-man? IMO, a man believing in Christ makes him a man of Christ.

Secondly, the thief on the cross was dying and was saved before he died; perhaps had he lived, then he would have changed his life if given a second chance...........just like the woman at the well.

And Blue I have not negated what a Christian was. I only gave my thoughts on the separation between Salvation and Christianity.
The woman at the well was not saved because she was a Christian. She was saved because in her heart she belived who Jesus was.
 

JayRob

TigaPaw
It makes no sense to you because you are not saved. Jay, people dont have to be Christians to be saved. The thief on the cross, for example, was not a christian. He only believed that Jesus was the son of God. If you would believe, you could be saved as well. There are Jews, Muslims, Hinduist(sp), and many other of the "non-christian" religion who will be saved because they believe that Jesus is the son of God. Christianity is a religion. Salvation is not.

The bible says that at the time of judgement many will use the the fact that they have done many things in the name of "Christianity" and his response to them was "depart from me. I never knew you." Again my friend, assiociations with Christ will not save you. Only salvation will.

Dude, the thief on the cross was offered salvation before he died, but what kind of salvation was that? You believe in a "death bed" repentance? What good is that. Let's say that I kill thousands of people, fornicated at will and stole from the poor. I then find out that I'm dying of cancer. The day before I die, I repent. Are you saying that I would be instantly "saved" just by saying a few words and believing in Jesus?:noidea:

Last time I read, if one is a Muslim and Hindu, they don't believe that Jesus is the son of god. I know for a fact that most Jews don't. Will these folks be saved too, while still believing in their religion?:noidea:

Please answer those questions if you don't mind.
 

JayRob

TigaPaw
And Blue I have not negated what a Christian was. I only gave my thoughts on the separation between Salvation and Christianity.
The woman at the well was not saved because she was a Christian. She was saved because in her heart she belived who Jesus was.

Actually RB asked you a legitimate question. "Where did it say in the bible that folks from other religions can be "saved" eventhough they have a different religion. This is something "new" to me.

How do you know that the woman at the well was "saved" before death? She could've gone back to her old ways after Jesus left her.

By the way, what was she "saved" from?
 

dacontinent

Preacher
...
How do you know that the woman at the well was "saved" before death? She could've gone back to her old ways after Jesus left her.

By the way, what was she "saved" from?
She could have gone back. For now, let's assume that she did not; that she stayed faithful to the change that she experienced through her encounter with Jesus.

She was saved from her sins and the penalty associated with it. Going on the assumption above, she would have been saved from the power of sin.
 
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SUtrp96

HBCU SCREAMING CHAMP 99'
Dude, the thief on the cross was offered salvation before he died, but what kind of salvation was that? You believe in a "death bed" repentance? What good is that. Let's say that I kill thousands of people, fornicated at will and stole from the poor. I then find out that I'm dying of cancer. The day before I die, I repent. Are you saying that I would be instantly "saved" just by saying a few words and believing in Jesus?:noidea:

Last time I read, if one is a Muslim and Hindu, they don't believe that Jesus is the son of god. I know for a fact that most Jews don't. Will these folks be saved too, while still believing in their religion?:noidea:

Please answer those questions if you don't mind.


God knows who believe.. you can say what you want on a death bed...
smdh
 

Dr H..

Active Member
The Thief on the Cross “was offered salvationâ€￾ and saved. The difference is he was under the Old Testament; we are now under the NT “Christianityâ€￾ which did not exist during the OT. Jesus was born and lived during the OT; the NT (Covenant) did not take effect until his death. The thief that was saved went to Paradise (Abraham’s bosom) the typology of heaven.

Individuals may make a death bed confession, but that’s all that it is, will God forgive him / her, yes, but that does not mean they will saved eternally. To my knowledge there are no examples of “death bedâ€￾ confessions in the NT.

Sorry to say, but it takes more than someone saying “I believe Jesus is the Son of Godâ€￾ to be saved. That’s one of the biggest fallacies going, what about the other parts of Christianity. I made this statement before “If that’s all it takes, well I can do whatever I want and be savedâ€￾ individuals in other religions, all they have to say is “I believe Jesus is the Son of Godâ€￾ then they will be saved {That dog won’t hunt}

IMO, a man believing in Christ makes him a man of Christ.

Come on RB, you know better. So I believe in Christ, but I am doing everything under the sun “am I a man of Christ or the worldâ€￾ Please be reminded that a large percentage “believe in Christâ€￾ however, that does not mean they are Christians of people of God. A friend from India says she believes in Christ, but does not practice Christianity – in fact most of us “Christiansâ€￾ are just window shopping.
 

Apaquelypse

Delta Tau 04
Actually RB asked you a legitimate question. "Where did it say in the bible that folks from other religions can be "saved" eventhough they have a different religion. This is something "new" to me.

How do you know that the woman at the well was "saved" before death? She could've gone back to her old ways after Jesus left her.

By the way, what was she "saved" from?

Romans 10:9-10
John 3:16
 

Apaquelypse

Delta Tau 04
She could have gone back. For now, let's assume that she did not; that she stayed faithful to the change that she experienced through her encounter with Jesus.

She was saved from her sins and the penalty associated with it. Going on the assumption above, she would have been saved from the power of sin.

Thanks Dac
 

Apaquelypse

Delta Tau 04
Dude, the thief on the cross was offered salvation before he died, but what kind of salvation was that? You believe in a "death bed" repentance? What good is that. Let's say that I kill thousands of people, fornicated at will and stole from the poor. I then find out that I'm dying of cancer. The day before I die, I repent. Are you saying that I would be instantly "saved" just by saying a few words and believing in Jesus?:noidea:

Last time I read, if one is a Muslim and Hindu, they don't believe that Jesus is the son of god. I know for a fact that most Jews don't. Will these folks be saved too, while still believing in their religion?:noidea:

Please answer those questions if you don't mind.

your answer....if thou, shall confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in thine heart that God has raised him from the dead, THOU SHALL BE SAVED.

That's not that hard of a concept for me. When Jesus died for our sins, he really died for all of them and there is now NO CONDEMNATION FOR THEM THAT BELIEVE.

And in terms of those other religions, no one follows them to the ledger, and in that err, there is the possibility for many to grasp other truths, but for them that grasp The TRUTH, they shall be one with the Father in heaven
 

docmump

The Arch Nemesis
Walking through....

What does the Articles of Faith say about some of these questions?

Just Walking Through
 

ROYAL BLUE

New Member
Come on RB, you know better. So I believe in Christ, but I am doing everything under the sun “am I a man of Christ or the worldâ€￾ Please be reminded that a large percentage “believe in Christâ€￾ however, that does not mean they are Christians of people of God. A friend from India says she believes in Christ, but does not practice Christianity – in fact most of us “Christiansâ€￾ are just window shopping.

A man of Christ will always fall short of the glory of God, however they always recognize/confront their sins, seek God's forgiveness, and repent in Jesus name which signifies they are a believer in Christ; which makes them a certified Christian.

A fruitcake sitting in the church claiming to be a Christian, and not admitting that homosexuality is wrong is not a Christian; surely we all can recognize this is not a man/woman of Christ. Having said that, a man/woman who no longer participate in homosexual activities, and recognize/confront their wrong doing, asked God's forgiveness, repented, and claim to be saved by the blood of Jesus is indeed a true Christian.

A man/woman wearing a white sheet claiming to be doing the work of Christ by killing negroes and Jews is not a Christian, however a former klansman who no longer participate in klansman activities, and recognize/confront their wrong doing, asked God's forgiveness, repented, and claim to be saved by the blood of Jesus is indeed a true Christian.

DH, this is off topic, but would you say that Paul's actions were similar to the KKK before Christ dealt with him?
 

ROYAL BLUE

New Member
I only gave my thoughts on the separation between Salvation and Christianity.

The woman at the well was not saved because she was a Christian. She was saved because in her heart she belived who Jesus was.

How is it possible to separate the two when it's the name of Christ that saves a being?

IMO, once you honestly and sincerely turn to Jesus, then you're a Christian/woman or man of Christ. I feel it's impossible to separate salvation from Christianity because without Christianity, there is no salvation for the sinner. Christianity is not a religion, but a reality we live in our daily lives.
 

Dr H..

Active Member
RB

Definitely so, he believed in what he was taught [more of less].

The key is he did not continue killing Christians, after he met Jesus [some of us say we met Jesus, but we are continuing with the same behavior]. But, the problem with modern men is we as a whole continue to do what we know is to be against the will of God and most of the time it’s a willful sin. And for those KKK that refuse to acknowledge, that their actions were wrong, is just as guilty today as they were when they were active. Will God forgive them yes “of they truly repent, and come forth saying I killed the young black man only because he was blackâ€￾

We say know Christ, yes we know Christ [based on our understanding or the word know] the truth is we are familiar with Christ, but we don’t know Him. We do not have a true knowledge [know – Epinosis] of Him, we are not truly to Him.

Let’s not look at homosexuality in particular, yes indeed homosexuality is a sin.

Sexual sins of any kind are considered "abominations" to the Lord - Leviticus 18: 18 – 30; (Deuteronomy 24: 1 - 4). The Christ amplified these laws to include the lustful thought – if any man look at [gaze] on a woman….â€￾ We as men are all guilty of this sin if you are married and fortification is you are not. And guess what all women at one time or another "mind" has strayed from their husband. That'a right all men and women mind mind has strayed -And if they say they have not, they are telling a lie and the lie (sin) is just as bad as the act "God got us coming and going"

No lie, I know I an guilty."I work downtown Nashville and I tell you the truth"

Dishonest business practices are named as an "abomination" in Deuteronomy 25: 13 - 16, Proverbs 11: 1 and Proverbs 20: 10.

Oppressive treatment of others and a haughty attitude are considered as "abomination" in Proverbs 3: 31 - 32, and a "froward heart" is again mentioned in Proverbs 11:20.

A list of six "abominations" are also given in Proverbs 6: 16 - 19:
A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

"wickedness" is equated with "abomination" in Proverbs 8:7. "Lying lips" are added to the list in Proverbs 12: 20 and a "proud heart" in Proverbs 16: 15.
Prayer is added to the list of "abominations," if it comes from one who turns his ear from hearing the law in Proverbs 28:9. That becomes especially significant in view of the consideration that all of God's laws are summed up in the great principle of Love to God and to one's neighbors and that Christ Himself demonstrated that Law in His life. Are my prayers an "abomination"? Are yours?

Why say all of this: None of us is qualified to cast the first stone. That’s why God call us filthy rags it’s “our lifestyle, thoughts and behaviorâ€￾
 

Apaquelypse

Delta Tau 04
How is it possible to separate the two when it's the name of Christ that saves a being?

IMO, once you honestly and sincerely turn to Jesus, then you're a Christian/woman or man of Christ. I feel it's impossible to separate salvation from Christianity because without Christianity, there is no salvation for the sinner. Christianity is not a religion, but a reality we live in our daily lives.

Thats mostly where you are wrong Blue. John 3:16 says, "For GOD so loved the world, that HE gave his only begotten SON that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
It does not say in this scripture, follow the Son, worship the Son, Fight or argue for the Son, but to confusingly enough, believe (and that goes for anybody) - and believing in HIM IS NOT CHRISTIANITY, following Him is.

Christianity is a religion Blue, remember the two brothers who were casting out demons in the new testament that were then beat naked by those demons? Remember how the Bible warns us aainst false prophets? Remember how is revalations the folks try to justify their salvation by the work they had done in the name of Christianity? all of this stuff is about religion and God stopped caring about religion a long time ago when he said "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." What is his glory? Jesus Christ. What do we come short of? Jesus Christ. Why have we come short? Because of sin.

Because of sin, religion can not save us, which is why we are saved by grace, through faith - And not by rules or standards in and of Christianity.


Luke 15:11-32....Was the son that left and went to the far country, not still his fathers son?
 

Tony

__________
Some come back to earth in a different body, whereas some move on to a higher dimension or purpose based on the progress they've made while on earth.

Progress? what type of Progress?

there's no such thing as an unpardonable sin in the sense as described by the bible. All mistakes that we make in this life can be overcome in the next.

we can correct our mistakes, or as Christians call it, be forgiven for our sins in another life?

I don't believe in a "one-time salvation opportunity" like the bible teaches.
So even after our physical body goes away we can still earn salvation?

my simple answer is "no".....i've never been saved.
is that because you don't believe in "being saved" or because the time for saving hasn't happened yet?

--my belief is that there's no hell fire and there's no heaven
WOW!!:scared:

There's no need to have a heaven or hellfire in order to be judged.

No need for? or won't be?

There's no finite time limit before one is judged. If a person's consciousness decides to change for the better, he will have the opportunity to change, no matter how long it may take.

No matter how long? So there is no one day when the opportunity to be
saved is over and judgement begins? We have forever to change?


Simple fact is that no one is saved right now.

Is this because "saving" doesn't exist or it just hasn't happened yet?

I get my information from those who've been there and have experienced life after death, but were given the opportunity to come back and tell what they experienced.

Been there where? Dead? So you believe them? You have "faith" they're not lying about it?


I also get my information from researched and science driven material that has been verified in a way that's much more credible and believable than the bible.

"verified in a way that's much more credible" to who? you?
if the way is more credible, could it still be wrong?


No one dies. There's no such thing as death. This is where i wholeheartedly disagree with the bible.
WOW!!!
So people's grandparents are not dead? what are they?


i think that's nothing more than a fear tactic created by men long ago as a tool to control and manipulate people with fear of a hell fire, while at the same time promising them a trip to heaven if they follow what's in the book.

This is what you THINK? or KNOW?

I believe that hell fire's no more real than the easter bunny or santa claus.[/b]

WOW!!!:scared: Boyyy what IF you're wrong about this.
This seems like a tough one to Gamble with considering the stakes



the bible teaches that the spirit can die. I don't believe that. There's no such thing as death.


I thought the Bible said your soul lives forever.

the bible is not all wrong.
Really? Just some of it ?

Simply put, i don't have any problem putting my "money" on the conversations of reliable witnesses that have been supported by research based scientific evidence.

"reliable" meaning the one you deem reliable? Did you know that the word Re-search , mean to search again what has already been looked @? Lot's of
Reseach Conclusions has had to be rewritten when new info was found.
World flat etc etc

I provided several videos and websites to support what i've posted.

So you believe those videos and websites over the Bible? You think they
can't possibly be as incorrect as you say the Bible is?


Those sources are much more reliable and provable than most of what's in the bible.
What makes them more reliable? Anybody today can lie and fabricate materials (photoshop etc etc) just like they could lie years ago.


If you want more answers, i would suggest that you use those sites as a source.

websites as sources? I hope those web site administrators are honest!!!!
wow!!
 

Blacknbengal

Well-Known Member
I think I mentioned that a few times. My opinion is based on research-based evidence and the scientifically proven accounts of thousands of actual eyewitness accounts.

In my opinion, after the physical body dies, the human spirit continues on and on and on. It never dies, therefore our consciousness doesn't die.
This is why there's no need for a resurrection. If we don't die, why is there a need to be resurrected?

Some come back to earth in a different body, whereas some move on to a higher dimension or purpose based on the progress they've made while on earth.
[/I]


:confused: So you're saying that after my mom died in 2000, that she went to live somewhere else? Where? I need to find her and ask her some questions. And we why didnt she come back to the spot where her body is buried?
 

ROYAL BLUE

New Member
Thats mostly where you are wrong Blue. John 3:16 says, "For GOD so loved the world, that HE gave his only begotten SON that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
It does not say in this scripture, follow the Son, worship the Son, Fight or argue for the Son, but to confusingly enough, believe (and that goes for anybody) - and believing in HIM IS NOT CHRISTIANITY, following Him is.

Christianity is a religion Blue, remember the two brothers who were casting out demons in the new testament that were then beat naked by those demons? Remember how the Bible warns us aainst false prophets? Remember how is revalations the folks try to justify their salvation by the work they had done in the name of Christianity? all of this stuff is about religion and God stopped caring about religion a long time ago when he said "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." What is his glory? Jesus Christ. What do we come short of? Jesus Christ. Why have we come short? Because of sin.

Because of sin, religion can not save us, which is why we are saved by grace, through faith - And not by rules or standards in and of Christianity.


Luke 15:11-32....Was the son that left and went to the far country, not still his fathers son?

I guess I see things differently than others, but be it as it may...............
 

JayRob

TigaPaw
:confused: So you're saying that after my mom died in 2000, that she went to live somewhere else? Where? I need to find her and ask her some questions. And we why didnt she come back to the spot where her body is buried?

Your grandmother could possibly already have come back, but you didn't know it. She could be standing right next to you and you not know it.

Some come back to earth in a different body, whereas some move on to a higher dimension or purpose based on the progress they've made while on earth.

This knowledge has been lost by most of our society because religion has robbed us of such knowledge. Religion has said that we need to wait for a resurrection. The evidence says otherwise. There's so much more proven knowledge about the afterlife than what modern day religion offers us.

Many folks have known for years that they've lived before on earth in a previous body. Children have such memories, but the older they get, they lose those memories, usually around age seven.

Scientific Evidence for Survival Of consciousness after death
http://www.near-death.com/evidence.html

"Children Remember Past Life, PART 1"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_T5v...9B3590&index=0

"Boy Remembers Past Life" Part 1 of 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdmME...eature=related

"Past Life Evidence Part 1"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EWwz...eature=related

Hope this helps a bit.
 

Justin

Just an average brotha
Dude, the thief on the cross was offered salvation before he died, but what kind of salvation was that? You believe in a "death bed" repentance? What good is that. Let's say that I kill thousands of people, fornicated at will and stole from the poor. I then find out that I'm dying of cancer. The day before I die, I repent. Are you saying that I would be instantly "saved" just by saying a few words and believing in Jesus?:noidea:

Last time I read, if one is a Muslim and Hindu, they don't believe that Jesus is the son of god. I know for a fact that most Jews don't. Will these folks be saved too, while still believing in their religion?:noidea:

Please answer those questions if you don't mind.
Wow
 
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