So JayRob...



JayRob

TigaPaw
You need proof of everything before you can believe in it?
You didn't have to start a whole thread about one question.:tup:

Doesn't the bible tell/command it's followers to "prove all things?" If you can answer that one correctly, then you've got my answer.
 

Tony

__________
You didn't have to start a whole thread about one question.:tup:

Doesn't the bible tell/command it's followers to "prove all things?" If you can answer that one correctly, then you've got my answer.
did you believe what your parents told you growing up,
or did you have to prove them correct first, before you obeyed them?

Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
 

JayRob

TigaPaw
did you believe what your parents told you growing up,
or did you have to prove them correct first, before you obeyed them?

Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Someone allegedly made the comment, "when I was a child, I spake as a child, Iunderstood as a child, but when I became a man, I put away childish things."

I would take the Matthew verse as referring to one being humble in spirit as a child.
I don't take it as believing everything you're told, while at the same time, blindly following every teaching.

Parents/teachers can knowingly or unknowingly give their children bad advice. It happens quite frequently, however when the child gets to be more mature to think for him/herself, it's their responsibility to revisit some of those teachings for verification purposes.
 

Tony

__________
Someone allegedly made the comment, "when I was a child, I spake as a child, Iunderstood as a child, but when I became a man, I put away childish things."

I would take the Matthew verse as referring to one being humble in spirit as a child.
I don't take it as believing everything you're told, while at the same time, blindly following every teaching.

Parents/teachers can knowingly or unknowingly give their children bad advice. It happens quite frequently, however when the child gets to be more mature to think for him/herself, it's their responsibility to revisit some of those teachings for verification purposes.

I'm not gonna hold you long for pages and pages
and after this thread I probably won't post to you
about God anymore but , before all that
Can you take a brief moment and tell my what you think
happens after we die.
 

JayRob

TigaPaw
I'm not gonna hold you long for pages and pages
and after this thread I probably won't post to you
about God anymore but , before all that
Can you take a brief moment and tell my what you think
happens after we die.
I think I mentioned that a few times. My opinion is based on research-based evidence and the scientifically proven accounts of thousands of actual eyewitness accounts.

In my opinion, after the physical body dies, the human spirit continues on and on and on. It never dies, therefore our consciousness doesn't die.
This is why there's no need for a resurrection. If we don't die, why is there a need to be resurrected?

Some come back to earth in a different body, whereas some move on to a higher dimension or purpose based on the progress they've made while on earth.

This knowledge has been lost by most of our society because religion has robbed us of such knowledge. Religion has said that we need to wait for a resurrection. The evidence says otherwise. There's so much more proven knowledge about the afterlife than what modern day religion offers us.

Many folks have known for years that they've lived before on earth in a previous body. Children have such memories, but the older they get, they lose those memories, usually around age seven.

Before you laugh or mock (not that you would), I challenge you to look at the evidence of the videos below, then decide for yourself. I'm sure many reading this are shaking their head and saying that this is akin to dabbling in "demonism or something of the like", because of deeply ingrained beliefs. I used to do the same thing until I studied the history of religion and why it was created.

The videos below prove exactly the point that after we die, our spirit lives on and that some of us return to earth in a different body.
If you have an objective mind, perhaps the stories of these children can better explain what I've said. It lasts only six minutes. Amazing stories.

"Children Remember Past Life, PART 1"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_T5vNgusEw&feature=PlayList&p=419A5478949B3590&index=0

"Boy Remembers Past Life" Part 1 of 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdmMEKPFDTY&feature=related

"Past Life Evidence Part 1"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EWwzFwUOxA&feature=related

Hope this answers your question. Thanks for asking.
Feel free to ask other questions if you have them.

Let me leave you with this quote from a noted historian:
"It is the secret of the world that all things subsist and do not die, but only retire a little from sight and afterwards return again. Nothing is dead; men feign themselves dead, and endure mock funerals and there they stand looking out of the window, sound and well, in some strange new disguise."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
 
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Dr H..

Active Member
In my opinion, after the physical body dies, the human spirit continues on and on and on. It never dies, therefore our consciousness doesn't die.
Is this you opinion, has it been proven by science (since you seem to favor evidence verified by science) where did you get this from?

What about the soul?

Some come back to earth in a different body, whereas some move on to a higher dimension or purpose based on the progress they've made while on earth.
Do you know of anyone that has returned in a different body?
 

JayRob

TigaPaw
Is this you opinion, has it been proven by science (since you seem to favor evidence verified by science) where did you get this from?

What about the soul?



Do you know of anyone that has returned in a different body?
Dr. H, I don't want to spoonfeed you everything. Watch the videos and that will answer your questions. That's why I posted them.
I posted the website below a couple of times as well.

Scientific Evidence for Survival Of consciousness after death
http://www.near-death.com/evidence.html
 
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Apaquelypse

Delta Tau 04
Jay, you and I both know, near-death is not actually real death. All these vidoes really conclude at the end of the day is that some folk have had out of body experiences (not even all folks have these so there is a fallicy in itself)

until you got a video of somebody dead, interviewing somebody else that's dead, talking about what it's like to be dead and live in the spirit relm, what you are doing is no different than anybody else who believes in anything else not solidified by your "science" my friend.
 

JayRob

TigaPaw
Jay, you and I both know, near-death is not actually real death. All these vidoes really conclude at the end of the day is that some folk have had out of body experiences (not even all folks have these so there is a fallicy in itself)

until you got a video of somebody dead, interviewing somebody else that's dead, talking about what it's like to be dead and live in the spirit relm, what you are doing is no different than anybody else who believes in anything else not solidified by your "science" my friend.
Dude, you're simply going by what you THINK you know. Scientific journals have verified that there is life after death.
I dared to even post the sites where you can read journals from researchers who've done a thorough examination regarding the subject.

If you can somehow break away from the trance that you're in, perhaps you can learn something you didn't previously know about.

Then again, you can choose to ignore it all you want, but it's there for anyone whose not so close-minded to see.

This is why many young folks these days shy away from spoon-fed religious doctrine. Religion shuts everything else out and says "they're the only ones" that are right, without having had an in-depth study of the other side of the ledger. They just vainly discard it. Now how scientific is that? LOL!!
 

Apaquelypse

Delta Tau 04
Dude, you're simply going by what you THINK you know. Scientific journals have verified that there is life after death.
I dared to even post the sites where you can read journals from researchers who've done a thorough examination regarding the subject.

If you can somehow break away from the trance that you're in, perhaps you can learn something you didn't previously know about.

Then again, you can choose to ignore it all you want, but it's there for anyone whose not so close-minded to see.

This is why many young folks these days shy away from spoon-fed religious doctrine. Religion shuts everything else out and says "they're the only ones" that are right, without having had an in-depth study of the other side of the ledger. They just vainly discard it. Now how scientific is that? LOL!!
Funny...And your scientific journals are coming up with conclusions that they "think" they know as well. How Ironic:retard:...Are you serious? Do you know how much in the last 20 years science proven "facts" have been proven inaccurate? And you put your faith in that? And you call the bible inconsistent? yeah buddy, you have all the answers......
 

JayRob

TigaPaw
Funny...And your scientific journals are coming up with conclusions that they "think" they know as well. How Ironic:retard:...Are you serious? Do you know how much in the last 20 years science proven "facts" have been proven inaccurate? And you put your faith in that? And you call the bible inconsistent? yeah buddy, you have all the answers......
Dude....what specific scientific facts that I've mentioned have been disproven? I don't speak for ALL of science, but I do speak for specific scientific info I post.
Overall, science has proven far more than what the bible has.

And what has your bible proven? LOL!!

For example...the Bible states that Adam was created on the sixth day. It is derived that approximately four thousand years transpired between Adam and Jesus. This would mean the universe is approximately 6,000 years old.

But this is impossible for a number of reasons. Perhaps the simplest to understand is that the light we see from stars have been traveling for billions of years. This proves the universe to be much older than 6,000 years; in fact, it proves the universe is billions of years old.

By the way, relay that last paragraph to one Dr. H.:tup:
 
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Apaquelypse

Delta Tau 04
Dude....what specific scientific facts that I've mentioned have been disproven? I don't speak for ALL of science, but I do speak for specific scientific info I post.
Overall, science has proven far more than what the bible has.

And what has your bible proven? LOL!!

For example...the Bible states that Adam was created on the sixth day. It is derived that approximately four thousand years transpired between Adam and Jesus. This would mean the universe is approximately 6,000 years old.

But this is impossible for a number of reasons. Perhaps the simplest to understand is that the light we see from stars have been traveling for billions of years. This proves the universe to be much older than 6,000 years; in fact, it proves the universe is billions of years old.

By the way, relay that last paragraph to one Dr. H.:tup:
umm jay, how did they "prove" the light we see from the stars have been traveling for billions of years again? Let me guess, some man came up with a formula that said so, right? Anybody ever been to a "star"? So a man can make a formula that measures years and you approve, yet a man writes about God and you have issues? Hey jay, you need to come a bit more concrete than that.

Oh, and what evidence have you posted that has been disproved? Probably none of it, yet, but it will. God has a way of proving Himself that is so unlike traditional means, that every knee will bow, and every tounge will confess that Jesus Christ is lord and savior, that the God of the old testament and the God of the new testament are the same, and that the logic and comprehension of man are like pre-k to his infinite wisdom.

I just pray that before you die (or live as a spirit or however you like to spin it) that God can "prove" to you more than enough and in abundance, that you may come back into the fold that you have chosen to leave based off empirical evidence.
 

Apaquelypse

Delta Tau 04
As I was typing the last comment from my phone, a question came to me and i have to ask, Jay, were you saved before you quit the church?
 

JayRob

TigaPaw
As I was typing the last comment from my phone, a question came to me and i have to ask, Jay, were you saved before you quit the church?
To answer your question, I was religious and I read the bible frequently. How else do you think I know a bit about bible verses, enough to debunk the fables mentioned by bible believers?

Once upon a time, I bought all of it "hook line and sinker" just like you did and do.....until...UNTIL I started doing research on the study of religions around the world and where religion came from and why it was started.

Only the physical body dies at death, but our consciousness lives on, so there's no such thing as an unpardonable sin in the sense as described by the bible. All mistakes that we make in this life can be overcome in the next. I don't believe in a "one-time salvation opportunity" like the bible teaches. If that's the case, millions upon millions are gone forever. That's how rigid and cruel the god of the bible is described as being.

Any how, please don't fret over thinking that I've committed the "unpardonable sin". Perhaps that's the reason you asked the question to begin with.

Now, I have a question for you. Not that I believe the doctrine, but I'm curious as to your response. The question is...."how can a living person claim to be saved, when there's the possibility that the person may denounce Christianity before he dies?" That's like counting your eggs before they're hatched. If that's the case, then no living Christian is saved.
 
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Apaquelypse

Delta Tau 04
Its funny how you never answer me directly, but I guess, in your case some scholars may have had it right when they proposed "the simplest questions are the most difficult to answer."

To answer your question, I was religious and I read the bible frequently. How else do you think I know a bit about bible verses, enough to debunk the fables mentioned by bible believers?

Anyway, Jay please stop fooling yourself into thinking you have debunked the bible. Your facts dont weigh enough nor are you spiritually wise enough to undo what my God has inspired. And you probably know so much about the bible (so you think) because youve read it (in the wrong context as it appears).

Once upon a time, I bought all of it "hook line and sinker" just like you did and do.....until...UNTIL I started doing research on the study of religions around the world and where religion came from and why it was started.

I think you would be more accurate in saying that you have researched what some men say about some religions and have discoverd how some men say that some religions were started.

Only the physical body dies at death, but our consciousness lives on, so there's no such thing as an unpardonable sin in the sense as described by the bible. All mistakes that we make in this life can be overcome in the next. I don't believe in a "one-time salvation opportunity" like the bible teaches. If that's the case, millions upon millions are gone forever. That's how rigid and cruel the god of the bible is described as being.

So there is no heaven or hell, right? Does that also mean that will be no judgement either correct?

Any how, please don't fret over thinking that I've committed the "unpardonable sin". Perhaps that's the reason you asked the question to begin with.

I wont fret another second sir, peace be unto you.

Now, I have a question for you. Not that I believe the doctrine, but I'm curious as to your response. The question is...."how can a living person claim to be saved, when there's the possibility that the person may denounce Christianity before he dies?" That's like counting your eggs before they're hatched. If that's the case, then no living Christian is saved.
Folks are not saved because of Christianity. Folks are saved becuse of salvation. They are related but not one in the same, hence, the "once saved always saved" theme of the new testament.
 

JayRob

TigaPaw
Its funny how you never answer me directly, but I guess, in your case some scholars may have had it right when they proposed "the simplest questions are the most difficult to answer."



Folks are not saved because of Christianity. Folks are saved becuse of salvation. They are related but not one in the same, hence, the "once saved always saved" theme of the new testament.
--I would think you could easily read between the lines to get my answer but since you can't seem to do so, my simple answer is "no".....I've never been saved.

--My belief is that there's no hell fire and there's no heaven in a sense as the place described in the bible. There's no need to have a heaven or hellfire in order to be judged. There's no finite time limit before one is judged. If a person's consciousness decides to change for the better, he will have the opportunity to change, no matter how long it may take. This is not the case for those who believe the bible. The bible teaches one time and one time only, then comes the judgment.

--Folks are not saved because of Christianity, they're saved because of salvation? Huh? If there was no Christianity, there would be no talk about salvation. Didn't Jezeus die for salvation? Wasn't he the starter of Kristna-ianity? Christianity is not a by-product of salvation, but salvation is a part of Christianity. Without Christianity, there would be no salvation.
Your above statement makes no sense.
Simple fact is that no one is saved right now. Salvation, according to the bible, means that you have to endure unto the end, the "end" being death.
 
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Dr H..

Active Member
Only the physical body dies at death, but our consciousness lives on, so there's no such thing as an unpardonable sin in the sense as described by the bible

My question are is "How do you know and are you 100% sure - what proof do you have"

You agree that we have a spirt, soul and physical body - are you willing to take a chance with God as it relates to the unpardonable sin.

You said that you believe there is a "Creator" so who is this creator, does he have a name and what is his final opinion of mankind - did he create man or are you a product of evolution?

You agree that the conscience continue to "live" well the bible mention the same - so how do you explain that, considering that you believe that the bible is not an inspired book, written by man but authored by God.
 

JayRob

TigaPaw
Dr H. says...

My question are is "How do you know and are you 100% sure - what proof do you have".

Nobody's 100 percent proof of anything UNTIL we get "there", wherever "there" is.

I get my information from those who've been there and have experienced life after death, but were given the opportunity to come back and tell what they experienced. I also get my information from researched and science driven material that has been verified in a way that's much more credible and believable than the bible.
In my opinion, this is more reliable and believable than a book, supposedly written by primitive men of old, a book that's full of contradictions, errors and unfulfilled prophecies. Tha's too inconsistent for me to believe that it was inspired....period.


You agree that we have a spirt, soul and physical body - are you willing to take a chance with God as it relates to the unpardonable sin.

Not exactly. I believe that our spirit or consciousness continues on after we put off this physical. Then we move on to another dimension based on our progress or lack thereof on earth, or there's the possibility that we return. No one dies. There's no such thing as death. This is where I wholeheartedly disagree with the bible.

As far as me believing in an unpardonable sin, I think that's nothing more than a fear tactic created by men long ago as a tool to control and manipulate people with fear of a hell fire, while at the same time promising them a trip to heaven if they follow what's in the book.
I believe that hell fire's no more real than the easter bunny or santa claus.


You said that you believe there is a "Creator" so who is this creator, does he have a name and what is his final opinion of mankind - did he create man or are you a product of evolution?

This Sustainer or Power dwells in all that exists and is responsible for all that exists, regardless of the state it's existing in.

For you to even hint that I believe in evolution is simply you being dishonest again with what you already know about what I've said about that.


You agree that the conscience continue to "live" well the bible mention the same - so how do you explain that, considering that you believe that the bible is not an inspired book, written by man but authored by God.

The bible teaches that the spirit can die. I don't believe that. There's no such thing as death.

Keep in mind that the bible is not all wrong. It has it's many, many flaws, fallacies and fables, but there's also some truth inside the book. I don't "throw the baby out with the bathwater" when it comes to the bible, but I also don't like being lied to over and over again by authors who claim that the book was inspired by "god" or whomever. It was inspired by men who copied, plagiarized and borrowed from previous cultures just like Judaism and Islam did. The authors then labelled their religious book (bible, torah, koran) as being "inspired". Christianity is simply the same product with a different flavor.

Simply put, I don't have any problem putting my "money" on the conversations of reliable witnesses that have been supported by research based scientific evidence.

I provided several videos and websites to support what I've posted. Those sources are much more reliable and provable than most of what's in the bible.
If you want more answers, I would suggest that you use those sites as a source.
 
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Apaquelypse

Delta Tau 04
--I would think you could easily read between the lines to get my answer but since you can't seem to do so, my simple answer is "no".....I've never been saved.

--My belief is that there's no hell fire and there's no heaven in a sense as the place described in the bible. There's no need to have a heaven or hellfire in order to be judged. There's no finite time limit before one is judged. If a person's consciousness decides to change for the better, he will have the opportunity to change, no matter how long it may take. This is not the case for those who believe the bible. The bible teaches one time and one time only, then comes the judgment.

--Folks are not saved because of Christianity, they're saved because of salvation? Huh? If there was no Christianity, there would be no talk about salvation. Didn't Jezeus die for salvation? Wasn't he the starter of Kristna-ianity? Christianity is not a by-product of salvation, but salvation is a part of Christianity. Without Christianity, there would be no salvation.
Your above statement makes no sense.
Simple fact is that no one is saved right now. Salvation, according to the bible, means that you have to endure unto the end, the "end" being death.
It makes no sense to you because you are not saved. Jay, people dont have to be Christians to be saved. The thief on the cross, for example, was not a christian. He only believed that Jesus was the son of God. If you would believe, you could be saved as well. There are Jews, Muslims, Hinduist(sp), and many other of the "non-christian" religion who will be saved because they believe that Jesus is the son of God. Christianity is a religion. Salvation is not.

The bible says that at the time of judgement many will use the the fact that they have done many things in the name of "Christianity" and his response to them was "depart from me. I never knew you." Again my friend, assiociations with Christ will not save you. Only salvation will.
 

ROYAL BLUE

New Member
Jay, people dont have to be Christians to be saved.
Where does it say that in the bible because the very word Christian means Christ-man? IMO, a man believing in Christ makes him a man of Christ.

Secondly, the thief on the cross was dying and was saved before he died; perhaps had he lived, then he would have changed his life if given a second chance...........just like the woman at the well.
 
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