How "the Great 8" comes from PrinceHall Masonry/OES

Discussion in 'On Da Yard!' started by Dawgpound97-01, Feb 20, 2005.

  1. Dawgpound97-01

    Dawgpound97-01 New Member

    I had no idea that Prince Hall masonry is considered the "Father of all" Greeks of:
    Alpha Phi Alpha
    Kappa Alpha Psi
    Omega Psi Phi
    Phi Beta Sigma

    And that the Order of the Eastern Stars(PHA) is considered the "Mother of all" Greeks of:

    Alpha Kappa Alpha
    Delta Sigma Theta
    Zeta Phi Beta
    Sigma Gamma Rho

    95% of the founders of the Great 8 are Prince Hall Masons or Eastern stars.
    I had NO CLUE,until I got raised in to masonry a year ago_One of the Past Master's of my lodge was telling me about it,and I started to do research on it a little bit (I didnt research on stuff I shouldn't know). I know quite a few people that's A Phi A and Omega Psi Phi that are masons (alot of them in my lodge),and I know a couple AKA's that's OES.........everything started to make sense once I noticed that people ARE members of a Great 8 frat/soror and a Mason/Star,especially when I transfered from a community college in Michigan to TnSU this past fall.Alot of people say that Alpha and Omega are the CLOSEST two frats to masonry,and AKA is the closest to Eastern Star (dont take MY word on it...just something I heard numerous of times). It's amazing....and you start to "look" at things different if you're a mason or eastern star but not a member of one of the Great 8(like myself) can see the character within it all.I see things all the time that the great 4 frats do that came from masonry,and it's CRAZY!

    Does anybody know of any books or websites that talk about the comparison of Masonry and the Great 8?
    And how did you first "notice" the simmularities(sp.) about masonry/OES and the Great 8?
  2. silentrage

    silentrage Delta Girl

    This book offeres an interesting history about the start of fraternal organizations: Black Greek 101 : the culture, customs, and challenges of Black fraternities and sororities by Walter M. Kimbrough. It was published in 2003. Kimbrough is considered an expert on the history of black fraternal orgainzations. He is currently the president of Philander Smith College in Little Rock, AR.

    More info about the book:

  3. Seeing Spots

    Seeing Spots Joyful Woman!

    I don't know what you mean about the similiarities are "crazy". I suppose you mean that it is "surprising" that a lot of things they do a similar.

    Actually, we no longer say GREAT 8, since Iota Theta Phi was granted membership in the National Pan-Hellenic Council, November 12, 1996. We are collectively referred to as the DIVINE 9. There is a book about the 9 Greek letter African American organizations, entitled The Divine Nine: The History of African American Faternities and Sororities by Lawrence C. Ross, Jr. Although he doesn't include a discussion of Masons and Eastern Stars, he gives great information about the Divine Nine. :tup:
  4. Dawgpound97-01

    Dawgpound97-01 New Member

    Good looking out "silentrage" and "Seeing Spots"

    when I said "crazy",yes I meant suprised. And me saying,"The Great 8",was just me excluding Iota Phi theta....most of the ol' school members from a "Great 8" fraternity or sorority dont have a CLUE of who Iota Phi Theta is.LOL...I was just taking to my cousin(an ol' school Omega from Michigan State),and I mentioned Iota to him,he was like,"huh?...Iota who??",and I told him that they just new on the yard;I told him that they are in the Pan-Hellanic council,and he was like " :shame: "
  5. silentrage

    silentrage Delta Girl

    SS, have you read Ross' book? I have it in the boxes (that are packed at my mom's house in BR) but I have yet to read it. A soror of mine read and really enjoyed reading about the history of the fraterinies and sororities. I read Kimbrough's book after spying it on the bookshelf here at UGA. It was quite and easy read and very interesting.
  6. silentrage

    silentrage Delta Girl

    Many people still don't recognize Iota Phi Theta as apart of the National Pan-Hellenic Council. However, they are and they may as well get used to it. Kimbrough does a good job of discussing the time when the NPHC went through the decision making process on admitting the Iota's to the organization and set-up criteria for future considerations.
  7. ChicagoJag

    ChicagoJag Member

  8. ABE

    ABE Running and Gunning

    For further reading, check out Secret Societies. It should be in your public library (if not request a loan from a participating library). You will see how societies have been formed over the centuries and how they take similar form in their rituals, etc. It even has a section on the Ku Klux Klan. I was rolling when I looked at some of their "rituals" and "initiations".

    Back on topic. It may be true that men and women who were masonically affiliated were the founders of fraternities and sororities, but one should not be so zealous in the pursuit of glorifying Masonry that he or she downplays or tries to make assumptions on the other groups. I believe both groups are great and they do tend to overlap populations at times.
  9. La-La

    La-La New Member

    So since 95% of founders of the "Great 8" now known as the Divine Nine were either Masons or Eastern Stars, could you tell me about Phi Beta Sigma and Zeta Phi Beta and their founder being Masons Or Eastern Stars? I am really looking and doing a lot of work on them. If you could tell me that would be a lot of help.
  10. Suge

    Suge The Phat Mack

    Why is it that so many masons get so excited about this bit of information. I just get tired of some mason trying to compare the greeks to masons. There may be many similar things about the two groups, based on the history of many of the founders, but they are not the same and should not be compared as such. hell you could say the masons had influence on alot of things in the culture, why so much focus on the greeks?

    As for influence, masons, military, and many other things have influenced the forming of BGLO's. But if you being the "father' makes you feel better, then so be it. I have ten founders, 11 charter members of my chapter, and that's where it ends for me.
  11. La-La

    La-La New Member

    Why is it that so many masons get so excited about this bit of information.

    I have know Idea why. I love the fact that Masons and Greek are two different groups. I would like some information on why Maosns and Greeks are compared the way they are. I want facts. I read that 95% of black greek founders were either Masons or Eastern Stars, which organizations? I want facts on the subject.
  12. Suge

    Suge The Phat Mack

    Here is your fact, SOME masons wanted to be in BGLO's so they treat the masons like it is a frat. They get jackets and other para that from my understanding is all out of order. There is a guy I work with that constantly wants to compare the two groups, and he is a perfect example of what i mentioned. He wanted to be a que.
  13. buckwheat

    buckwheat Well-Known Member

    Actually, I'm a part of Both!
  14. Fortitude

    Fortitude Sybarite

    I feel ya.
  15. SONNY

    SONNY The Future of Omega!!!!


    Suge I feel you on that. Why compare. Do your thing, and Ima do mine.
    When did Masons started doing party hops at the clubs?????
  16. AAMU Alum

    AAMU Alum Active Member

    That was always my understanding, too.

    quote:When did Masons started doing party hops at the clubs?????

    That's nothing! When I was on The Hill, there was one year that they wanted to step in the Homecoming Step show! :eek:
  17. SONNY

    SONNY The Future of Omega!!!!

    AAMU, dawg that Im saying!!!!

    but HEY do your thing.
  18. Dr. Sweet NUPE

    Dr. Sweet NUPE New Member

    I became a Prince Hall Mason in August of 1992, like my father, both grandfathers, and all four great grandfathers. I remember seeing my father leave the house with this black brief case once a month and never knew where he was going and never could find the case anywhere in the house. This was my foundation in LIFE. I joined KAPSI because I....well that will only be shared with my PHIs!!!!
  19. buckwheat

    buckwheat Well-Known Member

    I became a Prince Hall Mason back in July 93 in Mississippi! I've enjoyed both experiences. Prince Hall hoping, now that's another thing!:slap:
  20. Dr H..

    Dr H.. Active Member

    True, decades ago the Masons, Elks and OES were three of the organizations individuals could become a member of, without attending college.

    While some college students may think the Masons are a fraternity and the OES is a Sorority, they are not. Contrary to popular belief, the Masons did not organize any College Fraternities, nor did the OES organize any Sororities.

    There are similarities in the rituals of the Masons, College Frat's, Elks, KKK and so on. If you continue to research, you will find that the Masons and OES has it roots deeply imbedded in Ancient African Secret Societies, in fact the Masons goes back to the Building of King Solomon?s Temple. The Masons started as an organization for Brick or Stone Masons. Similiar to the modern day Labor Union

    I was raised in 1971 -

  21. docmump

    docmump The Arch Nemesis

  22. Miami Jag

    Miami Jag Mr. Brown Eyes

    I hear ya Suge.

    I pledged Sigma in 90 and I became a Mason in 92. (PHA)
  23. G-Man75

    G-Man75 Active Member

    Masonry is deeper than any sorority or fraternity will ever be. It is a secret society that is equal and respected no matter what color you are. White Masons will look out for black Masons and vice versa. In my opinion black fraternities and sororities are divided against each other, as well as, within their respective represented group. So, really there is no comparison and the focus really aint on greeks. Where is the so called learned 'humility".....?
  24. SoloMan

    SoloMan Well-Known Member

    Here's another fact for you. I bet you most if not all of the founders were members of their respective fraternity/sorority before they became a mason or eastern star. Now the question is why join both?
  25. anthonythegreat

    anthonythegreat PimpinATLStyle

    Wow! I've found this discussion and the posts very interesting! I am currently working on a project trying to pin-point which Black Greek fraternity founders were PH Masons as well. As a Prince Hall Mason myself (was raised in '05) I find the subject very interesting and would like to dig a little deeper (and the info isn't as readily available as I was hoping). If anyone knows of any sources for this type of specific information (or knows the info off-hand) any assistance you provide would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

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