HBCU Grads Earn Less than Black Students from White Universities, But Why?

[SAME OLD G]

(ThyBlackMan.com) A 2007 study by Roland Fryer and Michael Greenstone has found that graduates of Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs) suffer a wage penalty relative to their counterparts who attend Predominantly White Institutions (PWIs). The authors conclude that in comparison to black students who attend PWIs, graduates of HBCUs earn 20% less on the job market than their counterparts.

Equally interesting is that out of the 20 universities with the highest black graduation rates, only one of them (Howard) is an HBCU. Some wonder if this result, as well as the wage differential, cuts into the perceived value of an HBCU education.

According to the Fryer and Greenstone study, HBCU grads report having less confidence in their leadership skills than their black non-HBCU counterparts, less ability to interact with other races, and a higher likelihood of not choosing the same university again. At the same time, HBCU grads are more likely to engage in social, political and philanthropic activities than black students at PWIs.

There are several potential explanations for this disturbing disparity in outcomes for our kids. As a parent of a child who is considering attending an HBCU, I found myself quite curious about the results of this study. They came to my attention after being contacted to do a radio interview interpreting the results.

One possible reason for the wage disparity is good old fashioned racism. The same way that having a black name has been proven to lead to fewer job opportunities, it is not inconceivable that attending an HBCU can result in a penalty from corporations (run mostly by white folks) when they consider these students for positions. I recall starting graduate school at Indiana University years ago and having to explain to one of the professors why Spelman College is a better school than Indiana State. What this man didn’t realize is that Spelman is better than nearly every Ivy League University in the nation.

Read the rest

 

[Warndalyn]

well shut the doe...

I don't think anyone is surprised by this one...lol

 

[CEE DOG]

Wow!! I am so hurt. I thought Billy was equal to me. It never crossed my mind with him getting promoted over me, having a bigger office then me, and giving better assignments than me that we weren't equal. Golly Gee.

 

[SAME OLD G]

W and Cee Dog, I just want to make sure you guys read that headline correctly. It is saying that black folks who attended PWCs make more than black folks who attend HBCUs.

 

[CEE DOG]

W and Cee Dog, I just want to make sure you guys read that headline correctly. It is saying that black folks who attended PWCs make more than black folks who attend HBCUs.

nall I read it. :lol: Man, Huntsville is a weird place. These folks really believe that if you went to AU,UA or UAB that their education is way better than yours. They bring them in at higher salaries. Seen it happen for the last 15 years at various jobs. Sad!!! You will even have the black grads of these schools brag on how they make more than HBCU grads because they went to those schools, and the truth be told, 70% of them are dumber than a box of rocks. They kiss azz to get ahead.

 

[jag4life]

I'd definitely need to see the data they used on this one.

 

[SLT]

You will even have the black grads of these schools brag on how they make more than HBCU grads because they went to those schools, and the truth be told, 70% of them are dumber than a box of railroad rocks.

I fixed that for you..

I work with one now who thinks his PWC degree is golden. As far as making much more, he makes about 3k-4k more than me. I wonder if he's still paying back that student loan with that 4k more....

And you can't keep him out of our football games .....:lol:

 

[CEE DOG]

I fixed that for you..

I work with one now who thinks his PWC degree is golden. As far as making more, he makes about 3k-4k more. I wonder if he's still paying back that student loan with that 4k more....

And you can't keep him out of our football games .....:lol:

I be saying the same thing. :lol: I be like okay, but you got student loans with debt and interest, I ain't got to pay no bills. Therefore my money goes longer than yours. :lol:

 

[SLT]

I be saying the same thing. :lol: I be like okay, but you got student loans with debt and interest, I ain't got to pay no bills. Therefore my money goes longer than yours. :lol:

:nod: :weee: :emlaugh:

 

[bigmanofds]

I downloaded the actual paper.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=979336

This was written in the introduction.

HBCUs’ successes are in no small part due to their substantial financial support from federal, state, and to a lesser degree, local governments. Between 1977 and 2001, 61% to 73% of public HBCUs revenues came from public funds. While numbers are smaller for private HBCUs, public support still accounts for nearly a third of total revenues. In the years 1999-2001, annual total public support of HBCUs averaged roughly $2.65 billion (2005$) (Provasnik et al. 2004).

Despite their past successes and historical importance, HBCUs are at a crossroads today. In U.S. v. Fordice (505 U.S. 717 (1992)), the Supreme Court instructed state legislatures to find “educational justificationâ€￾ for the existence of HBCUs or integrate them; the latter would completely alter their mission. In response, some HBCUs experienced declines in enrollment, others have pursued dramatic increases in the fraction of non-Black students, and a number of HBCUs have seen important declines in their financial positions.

The Supreme Court’s call for an “educational justificationâ€￾ is surely related to the absence of convincing evidence on the causes and consequences of attending an HBCU for Blacks. HBCU proponents claim that they provide an idyllic learning environment that is free from the pressures of discrimination and racism. It is also argued that HBCUs help to build important social capital for Blacks by engendering a strong sense of communal responsibility and civic consciousness and providing networking opportunities for high achieving Blacks (Drewry and Doermann 2001). If these arguments are correct, then HBCUs offer unique opportunities for educational and social development of Black students and the argument for remaining segregated seems justified.

On the other hand, it is possible that HBCUs are inferior to Traditionally White Institutions (TWIs) in preparing Blacks for post-college life. If students are taking less challenging courses from less distinguished faculty, have access to poor resources, or are not investing in the social skills necessary to interact with diverse sets of people, then graduates will perform poorly in the labor market and have inferior non-labor market outcomes. In this scenario, the case for supporting HBCUs with public resources appears weak.

 

[pv_symbiotic]

W and Cee Dog, I just want to make sure you guys read that headline correctly. It is saying that black folks who attended PWCs make more than black folks who attend HBCUs.

Would help explained what I discovered in 97 when the girl from Syracuse had a better position than me.

 

[Kendrick]

I remember there was a grad school fair at JSU during junior year. While speaking to a recruiter from the University of Minnesota I asked him (a black guy) does it matter what school you graduate from when applying for a job or an internship. He told me it didn't. Apparently this article debunks his theory.

 

[EB]

nall I read it. :lol: Man, Huntsville is a weird place. These folks really believe that if you went to AU,UA or UAB that their education is way better than yours. They bring them in at higher salaries. Seen it happen for the last 15 years at various jobs. Sad!!! You will even have the black grads of these schools brag on how they make more than HBCU grads because they went to those schools, and the truth be told, 70% of them are dumber than a box of rocks. They kiss azz to get ahead.

This is true. Some are cool. As for the others, they missed out on the common sense. The lack of it will catch up to them in the long run.

 

[FAMU CLIFF]

Three factors to consider:

1. Many of our schools lack professional programs like medicine, law etc. And many of our schools largest graduating segments are in criminal justice, social sciences and education. Don't know if they analyzed the data by major.

2. Most of our schools admit kids who would not even be admitted to PWCs. In many cases you are skewing the results by comparing kids who would have never attended college if not for the HBCU to a kid who had their choice of college due to preparation. For the kid who may have struggled to get a degree, compare the value they provide to their family, community and society at large by the difference in income had they NOT gotten the degree afforded by an HBCU.

3.The were a study done about 7-10 years ago posted on the old MFs board detailing a study showing Blacks who attended HBCUs made more money and attained graduate degrees at a higher rate than Blacks who went to PWCs. I looked for it a few years ago and could not find it.

 

[SAME OLD G]

Three factors to consider:

1. Many of our schools lack professional programs like medicine, law etc. And many of our schools largest graduating segments are in criminal justice, social sciences and education. Don't know if they analyzed the data by major.

Excellent point!

 

[ATLJag]

Three factors to consider:

1. Many of our schools lack professional programs like medicine, law etc. And many of our schools largest graduating segments are in criminal justice, social sciences and education. Don't know if they analyzed the data by major.

That's true. An Education grad from Savannah State will start out with the same salary as an Education grad from Georgia State since school boards have a set salary schedule. On the other hand, a Sociology grad from Albany State more than likely will not have the same starting salary as an Engineering grad from UGA. Then again, neither will a Sociology grad from West Georgia, Kennesaw State, Valdosta State, and so on.

I'm not surprised by this study at all. Another dynamic that isn't really studied or talked about is the elitism that tends to exist amongst some HBCU grads. Aside from the Black UGA or Georgia Tech grads who think that their degrees are "better" than yours, you may also end up having to battle the Morehouse, Spelman, or Howard grads who also mistakenly assume that they are "better" than SWAC grads.

 

[jsupop33]

I think we need to start pushing more of our kids into sciences, businesses, medicines, tech, etc...

 

[SUtrp96]

Well large companies do determine your salary based off of what school you attended. I know it sound crazy but they do that...

So even though SU engineering is better than LSU's an LSU "black" grad would make more than a SU grad.

This been going on.

 

[ALPHA3]

:read:opcorn::read:

 

[ATLJag]

I think we need to start pushing more of our kids into sciences, businesses, medicines, tech, etc...

"Pushing" is not the term that I like to use, but I feel the same way overall.

I wouldn't "push" some kids into certain fields since everyone is not cut out for some professions. However, I will tell kids that in this economy you need to think long and hard about your plan, your backup plan, and your backup to the backup.

We are no longer in a society where you can get a BA or BS in just about anything and get a decent job. There was a time where you could get a Liberal Arts degree and still end up in a Management Training program regardless of your undergrad GPA or institution. There was also a time where you could start off at a company in the mailroom or call center and get promoted to a more professional job after a year or so. Those days are long gone and even some of the best and brightest are catching hell.

People also need to have plans with some of the "harder" majors as well. I've seen numerous people graduate in Biology, Chemistry, and the like and end up working a bs job mainly because they had no idea what they wanted to do with their degree. Any degree can end up being viewed as "useless" if the degree holder doesn't apply themselves and take advantage of opportunities.

 

[jsupop33]

"Pushing" is not the term that I like to use, but I feel the same way overall.

I wouldn't "push" some kids into certain fields since everyone is not cut out for some professions. However, I will tell kids that in this economy you need to think long and hard about your plan, your backup plan, and your backup to the backup.

We are no longer in a society where you can get a BA or BS in just about anything and get a decent job. There was a time where you could get a Liberal Arts degree and still end up in a Management Training program regardless of your undergrad GPA or institution. There was also a time where you could start off at a company in the mailroom or call center and get promoted to a more professional job after a year or so. Those days are long gone and even some of the best and brightest are catching hell.

People also need to have plans with some of the "harder" majors as well. I've seen numerous people graduate in Biology, Chemistry, and the like and end up working a bs job mainly because they had no idea what they wanted to do with their degree. Any degree can end up being viewed as "useless" if the degree holder doesn't apply themselves and take advantage of opportunities.

True,
Gameplanning is very important. I think you need to have a plan when you get to college in 2011 as opposed to going to college to find yourself. I preach this to my little sister. I tried to persuade her into accounting over criminal justice but to no prevail. Now, I am pushing her to really apply for internships and trying to get her to DC this summer to intern for the Department of Justice. However, she doesn't want to spend the summer away from her "boyfriend." I really just don't want her to get the rude awakening I had.

 

[Bane]

"Pushing" is not the term that I like to use, but I feel the same way overall.

I wouldn't "push" some kids into certain fields since everyone is not cut out for some professions. However, I will tell kids that in this economy you need to think long and hard about your plan, your backup plan, and your backup to the backup.

We are no longer in a society where you can get a BA or BS in just about anything and get a decent job. There was a time where you could get a Liberal Arts degree and still end up in a Management Training program regardless of your undergrad GPA or institution. There was also a time where you could start off at a company in the mailroom or call center and get promoted to a more professional job after a year or so. Those days are long gone and even some of the best and brightest are catching hell.

People also need to have plans with some of the "harder" majors as well. I've seen numerous people graduate in Biology, Chemistry, and the like and end up working a bs job mainly because they had no idea what they wanted to do with their degree. Any degree can end up being viewed as "useless" if the degree holder doesn't apply themselves and take advantage of opportunities.

A buddy of mine has a B.S. in Chemistry from Alcorn and a M.S. in Chemistry from Georgia Tech. Dude is so smart he got accepted into Georgia Tech's PHD program, but only finished his Masters. That cat is a loan officer at a bank in his home town. Although he is doing well, he is just wasting away his talents and career.

 

[ATLJag]

Well large companies do determine your salary based off of what school you attended. I know it sound crazy but they do that...

So even though SU engineering is better than LSU's an LSU "black" grad would make more than a SU grad.

This been going on.

I'm not saying that is not true because I am sure that it has happened. However, there may be other factors outside of just where the person went to school. The LSU grad could have different internships/co-ops or they may have negotiated their salary better. If the SU grad jumps at the first offer, then there is a chance that they could end up making less than both the LSU grads and even other SU grads at that company.

 

[CEE DOG]

I know yall don't wana believe it, but they do in some cases start them off more. Now they end up working for us eventuallly, but this is a known issue in large companies. Sad, but true.

I'm not saying that is not true because I am sure that it has happened. However, there may be other factors outside of just where the person went to school. The LSU grad could have different internships/co-ops or they may have negotiated their salary better. If the SU grad jumps at the first offer, then there is a chance that they could end up making less than both the LSU grads and even other SU grads at that company.

 

[ATLJag]

True,
Gameplanning is very important. I think you need to have a plan when you get to college in 2011 as opposed to going to college to find yourself. I preach this to my little sister. I tried to persuade her into accounting over criminal justice but to no prevail. Now, I am pushing her to really apply for internships and trying to get her to DC this summer to intern for the Department of Justice. However, she doesn't want to spend the summer away from her "boyfriend." I really just don't want her to get the rude awakening I had.

That dude probably won't even be her "boyfriend" by the time she graduates, but can't see that now :lol: I've tried to school some folks in the past about getting caught up and losing focus on their potential career path. You can't put "I didn't intern because I wanted to stay at home with my man" or "I didn't relocate after school because I didn't want to leave ole girl behind" on a resume.