Gore on the sideline for 2004


Bartram

Brand HBCUbian
I think this is a good move and a healthy one for the Democratic Party. Perhaps in 2004 the republicans won't be able to use Clinton's personnal life to energize the Republican base.

This opens up the Democratic field to new faces and ideas. I doubt, however, if any of this will be enough to defeat Bush in 2004. The Republicans/conservatives will employ lessons learned from the Bush Sr defeat at the hands of Clinton better than the U.S. armed forces employed lessons learned from the Vietnam War to totally SMASH Iraq in the Gulf War. Plus the growing grassroots of the Republican/conservative party, thanks to the conservative revolution in and dominance of talk radio and now more conservative-friendly cable networks, will exert even more influence on future elections and that influence is only just now beginning to be felt.

The 2004 election will be a simple excersize in democracy, not a change in power. There's no democrat who can compete seriously with a popular Bush, especially no overtly liberal democrats or democrats with character & family values "baggage". :rolleyes:

Any pre-election thoughts? :wavey:
 
I beg to differ

I don't see Bush being re-elected in 2004. I think that Gore should run for the Democrats. I also think that he realizes that his stiff necked career politician persona hurt him in the last election. He is taking steps now to make him seem more reachable.

Now Bush on the other hand may be one of the worse presidents ever. He has botched up the war on terrorism. Osma is still running around sending messages to Bush to let him know that he had better not focus all of his attention on Saddam.

Bush is also trying to push us into an unprovoked war with Iraq, that if it happens will make the US look like a tyrant trying for world domination.

He can't even control his own staff. His staff is constantly bickering with each other. Also, if I am not mistaken, he has had more defections from his staff than Clinton had in 8 yrs.

I think the GOP is secretly lining up qualified candidates to run against him.

I am sorry, I don't like being represented by a president who jokes about his own lack of intellegence.
 

Popular President

Gore is out. He made the announcement. It's official. He's not running, so Gore is basically a moot point right now. It is Lieberman, et al.

Now to Bush:
How would you, then, explain Bush's high approval ratings in the latest opinion polls?

Unfortunately, my friend, people view the situation with Iraq very differently than you. Most people don't see it as American aggression (at least most people who go out and vote to keep Bush in office). Besides, republicans "do war" and are skilled at rallying the country (well,,, again,,, those who vote and are the most civically and politically active) when it comes to war.
 
Bush will be re-elected in 2004, because he is gonna insure that we are still at war, and changes of leadership don't tend to occur during times of war.
 
Bush can be defeated in 2004. There are still problems with the war on terror. Osama has not be captured. Our ports are not protected like they should. And the investigation into why the incidents occurred on 9/11/01 has literally stopped before it started. The economy is not exactly doing well right now.

The problem is that the democrats do not have any backbone to state their differences with the republicans. Or to say it another way they are not standing for much right now. At least Gore was standing for something this fall. He was one of the few well know democrats to criticize Bush's fight against terror. He was one of the few leading democrats to talk about the problems with the economy.

As for the liberal vs. moderate cause in the party, note that the moderates governorships and senate seats in South Carolina, Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Missouri, North Carolina, Texas, and Colorado. Understand this about the republican Senator Mary Landrieu. OOPS, I mean the democratic Senator Mary Landrieu. She may have won. But she barely won. This is a well financed incumbent who was the state treasurer for eight years. Yet, she had to fight hard to retain her senate seat.

So if the democrats are going to win in 2004, they will have to show their difference between them and the republicans. If they do not they will lose their effort to get the White House, Senate, and House in 2004. Or I could say what a lot of republicans may say. If I were republican, why would I vote for a fake republican when I could vote for a real one.

Bush can be defeated in 2004. But I wonder if the democrats will be up to the challenge.
 
I love this "war on terror". Is it going to be as successful as our war on drugs? I mean, NO ONE can score any weed, crack, or heroin ANYWHERE in America.

I just love wars against abstract concepts.:rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by EB
Understand this about the republican Senator Mary Landrieu. OOPS, I mean the democratic Senator Mary Landrieu. She may have won. But she barely won. This is a well financed incumbent who was the state treasurer for eight years. Yet, she had to fight hard to retain her senate seat.


The republican's state and national party spent more money in the state on this election than the incumbent Mary Landrieu. Lets not forgot we were visited by Papa Bush, the prez, vice prez, Bob Dole, Trent Lott, and a cast of other characters all to unseat Mary and they still loss. This was one of the dirtiest, and negative campign in recent memory, Suzie might have sealed her future because of it The two republican she defeated in the primary didn't support her because of her negative ads and the outside influence. . All politic is local.
 
Bush not only will "win" against whoever the Democrats nominate, but he will win big. The bottom line is the Democrats just don't have a message that resounds with Middle class Whites, which sway any and every election. This core group pretty much votes on a message/issue related basis and the Republicans have the better message now.

As far as Bin Laden's capture and the war on terrorism goes, you must realize that we have been spoiled in this era of technology and instant news. How long was WW1, WW2, Korea and Vietnam. The Gulf war spoiled a lot of people: people now think we can win a war in a matter of days! When govt's quit funding and hiding Bin Laden then we can take him out. Remember, during Clinton's adminstration we had a chance for him to be "handed" over and we declined the courtesy.

The sad thing about the War on Drugs and concepts like that is a double edged sword. You could eliminate drugs in this country, but you basically would have to resort to Gestapo tactics and make the U.S. something likekn to "1984" and "Farenheit 451". The sad thing is, that we have a drug problem because of the demand for it.

Hmmm, wait....I'm forgetting something. Oh yeah, I need to get on my Republican soapbox !!!

WE aint.... goin no where !!!!
WE aint ....goin no where !!!!
And we can't be stopped now !!!
Cuz it's G.O.P. fo Life !!!
:D :D :D
 
Originally posted by Makaho Bedrock
Bush not only will "win" against whoever the Democrats nominate, but he will win big
If the economy doesn't improve, then you might wanna hold off on that winning big prediction.

Notice how Bush fired his top economic advisers last week. He's not such a big fool.
 
Originally posted by Makaho Bedrock
The sad thing about the War on Drugs and concepts like that is a double edged sword. You could eliminate drugs in this country, but you basically would have to resort to Gestapo tactics and make the U.S. something likekn to "1984" and "Farenheit 451". The sad thing is, that we have a drug problem because of the demand for it.

I'm in favor of decriminalizing drugs and treating them like alcohol and tobacco. That will eliminate much of our street crime right there. Further, the money that we save from no longer having to fight this "war" can be spent on rehab, education, etc. Drug abuse is a medical, not a criminal problem and we should treat it as such.

Regarding the 2004 elections, the problems from the dems started with Clinton's success. He won by dragging the party to the center, and in doing so, they lost their identity. In response to Clinton, the republicans made a shift to the right from their previous right-center position. The democrats will need to adjust to show that they are different and that their way is more attractive to Americans. Unfortunately for them, I don't see anyone with the balls to do that.
 
It will be the economy stupid.........

1991, U.S. wins the Gulf War, Bush approval rating at an all time high.

1992, Bush loses the white house to a governor from Arkansas.



2001, U.S. FIGHTING WAR ON TERRORISM, Bush rating higher than his dads', economy sucks

2002, same as previous year. Hire new economy team.

2003, ??????

2004???????
 
Originally posted by BgJag


The republican's state and national party spent more money in the state on this election than the incumbent Mary Landrieu. Lets not forgot we were visited by Papa Bush, the prez, vice prez, Bob Dole, Trent Lott, and a cast of other characters all to unseat Mary and they still loss. This was one of the dirtiest, and negative campign in recent memory, Suzie might have sealed her future because of it The two republican she defeated in the primary didn't support her because of her negative ads and the outside influence. . All politic is local.

You make some excellent points. But as an ex-resident of Louisiana, I do know a little how the politics are there. But Mary should not forget her base.

I do not mean to be nasty towards Louisiana politics. After all what the republicans did to Max Cleland in Georgia, my home state, was nasty. But when I saw the debates over C-SPAN, I looked at the campaign as a normal Louisiana political campaign.
 
Originally posted by EB



I do not mean to be nasty towards Louisiana politics. After all what the republicans did to Max Cleland in Georgia, my home state, was nasty. But when I saw the debates over C-SPAN, I looked at the campaign as a normal Louisiana political campaign.



Dirty deeds abounded in elections

12/12/02

By Bill Walsh
Washington bureau/The Times-Picayune


WASHINGTON -- Dirty tricks are as old as politics itself, and the recent elections in Louisiana had a fair share of skullduggery, mostly anonymous efforts aimed at smearing candidates and confusing or discouraging voters.

Much of what surfaced in the U.S. Senate primary and runoff was aimed at disrupting the usual racial and ideological voting patterns in the election: either suppressing the liberal black vote for Democrat Mary Landrieu or peeling conservative white voters from Republican Suzanne Haik Terrell.

One of the most blatant attempts to keep African-Americans from voting was an unsigned pamphlet that the Landrieu campaign said was circulated in New Orleans public housing complexes just before the runoff. The document said: "Vote!!! Bad Weather? No problem!!! If the weather is uncomfortable on election day (Saturday December 7th) Remember you can wait and cast your ballot on Tuesday December 10th." Anyone who waited past Saturday, however, missed the chance to vote.

One sign posted around New Orleans on election day sought to exploit Landrieu's problems with some black leaders who complained that the white senator had ignored them during the six years of her first term. The signs said: "Mary, if you don't respect us, don't expect us."

.
One man waving a sign on the Carrollton Avenue neutral ground said he got $75. He said he felt bad about it because he voted for Landrieu


The signs were paid for by the Louisiana Republican Party, who also hired black men to wave them on street corners. GOP officials defended the slogan as an accurate reflection of how many black voters felt about Landrieu. Landrieu said it was an underhanded attempt to persuade black voters to stay away from the polls.

The Terrell campaign said it, too, was victimized by anonymous attacks, including "sample ballots" circulated before the Nov. 5 primary that appeared to promote a ticket of Terrell, a white Republican, and Rep. William Jefferson and district attorney candidate Dale Atkins, both black Democrats. The ballots were devious in a number of ways: Jefferson backed Landrieu, not Terrell, and he supported Atkins' opponent, Eddie Jordan.

In the primary, the campaign signs also showed up along streets in New Orleans linking Terrell and Jefferson politically, a message that would play badly in each of their constituencies.

Those signs reappeared during the runoff, Terrell aide Bill Kearney said. He said some were posted in white neighborhoods in Jefferson and St. Bernard parishes just before the runoff election and evidently were designed to cause confusion by linking Terrell with Jefferson.

"They put them in some suburban white areas to trick people," Kearney said.

Terrell may have been the beneficiary of a separate effort in Baton Rouge. A handbill purporting to be a "coalition ballot" circulated in African-American neighborhoods in the days leading up to the Dec. 7 runoff suggested that Terrell had the backing of 17 civic groups, some of them African-American. The ballots carried the signature of community activist Tonya Pollard-Gosa, who later signed an affidavit for the Louisiana Democratic Party saying it was a forgery. Terrell's camp said it had nothing to do with the fake ballot.

"Thousands of these things had hit the streets," Democratic Party Chairman Ben Jeffers said. "This election cycle had more games than I've seen in a while. They were really trying to mislead African-Americans to vote for Suzie Terrell."

But not all of the shenanigans appealed to race. In the nasty 5th Congressional District election, the dirty tricks appealed to a tried-and-true election topic: sex.

The Republican candidate, Lee Fletcher, said that on election eve, a recorded phone message went out to voters in Pointe Coupee, Allen, Rapides and Richland parishes claiming he is gay. Fletcher said he didn't hear the message himself but cobbled together an accounting of it from supporters who did.

According to his notes, it said: "Lee Fletcher is 40 years old, never had a date and doesn't know what it is like to wake up in the middle of the night and change a diaper or take care of a hungry baby. He never married. This draws one to the conclusion that he must be homosexual."

Fletcher said he doesn't know the source of the message, but he said it was clearly aimed at conservative voters who would not vote for a gay candidate.

"I'm more of a man than anyone who did that," he said.

Fletcher's opponent, Democrat Rodney Alexander, said he also was a target of a recorded phone message, which, according to a Democratic Party official who heard it, claimed that Alexander had been married before, even though he hadn't.

Fletcher said he had nothing to do with the calls. He narrowly lost to Alexander.

. . . . . . .

Republicans play role of Monday morning QB

After Landrieu's re-election, GOP tries to figure what went wrong


12/10/02

By Bruce Alpert and Robert Travis Scott
Staff writers/The Times-Picayune

While much of the post-election talk Monday was about the impact of get-out-the-vote efforts and a possible backlash against negative ads, the simplest analysis of Louisiana's U.S. Senate election shows that Democrat Mary Landrieu won with a swing of almost 76,000 votes between the Nov. 5 primary and Saturday's runoff.

Landrieu increased the total Democratic vote from 596,900 in the primary to 643,400 in the runoff for a gain of 46,500 votes. Republican candidate Suzanne Haik Terrell, meanwhile, saw the GOP total drop from 632,702 in the primary to 603,386 Saturday, a loss of 29,316 votes.

Political analysts say Landrieu was able to survive a strong Republican assault, and an opponent backed by a popular president, by stressing local issues, pushing turnout in the state's biggest population centers and energizing her base.

National Democrats see the Louisiana turnaround as a possible life preserver against a Republican wave that helped the GOP regain control of the Senate and build its majority in the House of Representatives.

"We have a bounce in our step this morning," Senate Democratic leader Tom Daschle said Monday. He said Landrieu's victory and that of South Dakota Democrat Tim Johnson in November can serve as models for future Democratic campaigns.

Landrieu and Johnson campaigned against well-financed GOP opponents who were backed by President Bush. Both ran on campaign themes that they would make serving their states their No. 1 priority, not national parties or national political leaders.

"I think that's generally what Democrats are trying to do: put their states first, put the working people, the people that they represent out there every time these issues come up," Daschle said.

Because the GOP holds only a 51-49 majority in the Senate, Daschle said he and Sen. Trent Lott, R-Miss., the incoming majority leader, have agreed the GOP will hold only a one-seat advantage on committees. Party officials said that means Landrieu will keep her seat on the Appropriations Committee, but some Democratic aides said it's possible she could lose her seat on the Armed Services Committee if Republicans insist on reducing the size of key committees.

Both panels are considered "A" committees, and if membership is reduced, as proposed by Lott, it's possible many Democrats will be limited to one such powerful committee each.


Going negative

U.S. Rep. John Cooksey, R-Monroe, who ran third in the Senate primary behind Landrieu and Terrell, said he had heard from quite a few Republican voters who were turned off by "the negative tone" of the Terrell campaign leading up to Saturday's runoff.

Much of it, he said, was orchestrated by the National Republican Senatorial Committee, with ads designed and written by national political operatives whom he described as people "with coarse, crude personalities, who didn't have the sensitivity to see that the barrage of negative ads offended the sensitivities of many Louisiana voters."

He said the volume of negative ads was a clear case of overkill at a time when voters were looking for positive reasons to support Terrell. He also suggested Terrell herself needed to offer voters more reasons to support her.

"I said that during the debates, with two women from New Orleans, that it looked as if Mary went to the more effective New Orleans charm school than Suzie did," Cooksey said.

Louisiana Republican Party Chairman Pat Brister said she understands that Cooksey is reflecting the views of some political observers that the Republican campaign was too negative. But she said she doesn't buy that.

"I know people say that they don't like negative campaigning, but it is effective in some cases," Brister said. "I'm not saying it was the most effective in this campaign, but I don't know any campaign these days that isn't without its share of negatives."

Any effort, she said, to defeat an incumbent must include some ads criticizing that person's record. "That's what we tried to do here, and in some cases it was effective in showing the differences between the two candidates," Brister said.


In hindsight

In the final analysis, Brister said, Landrieu and the Democrats did a better job getting out their core voters than Republicans had expected.

"We were pretty encouraged earlier on Saturday that we were doing the better job, but they got their vote late in the day," Brister said.

She said there's plenty of time to assess what worked well and what didn't. One area, she said, that the state GOP definitely needs to work on is with so-called "robo calls" from GOP celebrities, automated telephone messages urging people to go to the polls.

Terrell said some voters complained to her that they had received multiple calls from everyone from President Bush to Iran Contra figure Oliver North, Gov. Foster and U.S. Rep. David Vitter, R-Metairie.

In the future, Brister said, such calling should be better coordinated, but she also said, "I doubt very much that someone voted for Mary because she got too many calls from Suzie supporters."

Vitter said that, like Cooksey, he received complaints that the GOP ran too many negative ads. But he said it's impossible to assess whether they impacted Terrell's final vote tally, or even sent some voters to Landrieu's side.

One problem, he said, is that ads from independent groups supporting Terrell were added to the already heavy mix of ads from the Terrell campaign and Republican Party. It made it seem that there were more negative ads than Republicans had put out on their own, he said.

From his perspective, Vitter said, the Landrieu campaign and Democrats deserve credit for doing a good job getting out critical African-American voters.

. . . . . . .
 
The democratic message

The problem is that the democrats do not have any backbone to state their differences with the republicans. Or to say it another way they are not standing for much right now.

I don't know, I think the problem with democrats is what the party has taken up as it's message is being rejected increasingly by those on the fence. Plus too, after blasting the first Bush on the Gulf War and having that blow up in the face, many democrats are gun-shy to come out against Bush on this war, even though it would seem to be easier to come out against a pre-emptive war against Iraq.

The problem is, however, we have just been attacked and somebody is responsible. I don't know if it is Iraq, Al Qui Da or a combination, but we have been attacked, just not in a traditional war since,,, and somebody gotta pay. I think the republicans excel on getting that message through to the people that do most of the voting and make most of the desicions in this country.

Plus, I don't think the economy is going to tank as bad as everybody is predicting. I think what we are going through is and adjustment after so many good years. The prosperity we were seeing could not go on forever and the 911 event was actually nothing but a good excuse for big corps to make corrections and blame it on 911.

I think Bush wins pretty easily and if Gore would have run he would have been soundly defeated because of his Clinton ties and positions of late. I would run lieberman now. He can't win anyway, so I'd run him and gear up for 2008, and not with Hillary as a candidate. That would only lead to 12 years of republican dominance just like the Reagan/Bush years.
 
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